Yeah, it’s Harry Potter. Social change is the enemy in the book. At no point does anyone try to improve anything in the book. They don’t even oppose evil that much. They just oppose it when the existing evil tries to go too far by the current standards of evil.
Hermione tries to raise awareness about elf mistreatment.
For maybe two dozen paragraphs in one book, and then she gives up because literally no other wizard will support her.
Its just so funny that there’s a scene in Book 5 where Voldemort blows up a statue dedicated to Wizard Supremacy and you’re honestly not sure who the bad guy is anymore.
Tries and fails. It never goes anywhere, and she’s mocked as a well-meaning fool for trying in the first place because “welp most elves just enjoy being slaves what can you do shrug emoji”. Jkr sets up something with Hermione and the elves and then doesn’t follow through with it in any meaningful way (and I don’t count commentary from her outside the books as following through) so it’s left to just sit there uncritically as “slavery is a thing in this universe and is seen as completely normal by most characters, and only one person ever tries to do anything about it and she’s depicted as a cringey radical in the process”. Jkr doesn’t even show the beginnings of societal change like more elves coming to Dobby’s side of things once they see it’s an option and that Dobby’s is happy that way, or other house elves being motivated to think differently about their situation and starting to unlearn their generations of indoctrination. We don’t even see a glimpse of Winky starting to recover instead the last we see of her is as a depressed alcoholic whose life was ruined by her being freed from slavery. Jkr depicts it as “yeah slavery is bad but you can’t change the way the world works so might as well not even try.” the house elves’ servitude is treated as something so fundamentally tied to their species that it seems to be biological and thus humans taking advantage of that is to some degree the natural way of things which, I shouldn’t have to explain what the problem with that sort of depiction is. Maybe that wasn’t what she intended, maybe she just added slavery because it’s a common world building trope, but if that’s the case she did so without considering the implications or how it would come across in the end product or the messages it would send.
Then she gets to meet the slave race they keep in the basement and said slaves explain that their enslavement is a fundamental part of magic society and the only reason Dobby in particular had to be freed was because his owners were a bit too mean to him. The message becomes “slavery is fine as long as slaves are treated well.”. Then they drop that particular can of worms because addressing it would require societal change. It is one of few endeavours where the heroes of the story just fail to do what they want.
Wtf? Hermione goes to a point where she tries her best to force the freedom on them (leaving clothes around so they accidentaly pick them up and) so be freed. I think it is canon that she still pursues it even after school and makes actual changes while working at the Ministry.
Fuck it. Some more rambles because the house elves drive me insane.
The correct response to a slave race that wants to be subjugated is to refuse. You can see in the books that the existance of slave races has made the Wizards worse people and it makes them used to treating other races, that are free and sentient, as slaves. Tons of sentient races we meet in the story are either service staff or set dressing for wizards amusement.
What the fuck, you’re right. Owning slaves is detrimental to how even the owners see the world. If we tolerate slavery even if we’re on the benefitting side, it alters our worldview to include better and lesser peoples.
said slaves explain that their enslavement is a fundamental part of magic society and the only reason Dobby in particular had to be freed was because his owners were a bit too mean to him
Its crazy how a big part of subsequent novels is Dobby being unable to exist without slavishly devoting himself to another wizard. And his arc ends with him literally catching a bullet for Harry because he’s convinced his life is worth less than a wizard’s.
Just imagine reading “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” and the whole way through its just Jim finding newer and more obsequies ways to serve at Huck’s whims.
Dumbledore is the single most powerful wizard know, and the most influential in magical Britian. He runs a school where he is beloved by nearly everyone. If he wanted to change things, he easily could have done more. Especially since Fudge wasn’t very powerful and had to deal with an entire bureaucracy. Direct change at the school itself would have been feasible.
And while the parents might have threatened to remove their students, they weren’t really. Where else are they going to send their kids to get educated? There are other schools but the culture difference was so stark that seems unlikely.
That’s like saying “Dumbledore had the biggest assault rifle of anyone, so he can do anything”.
Sure he was a powerful duelist, but a group of others could take him down.
So, setting the “power” aside, he has 2 choices:
Operate within the system and bureaucracy to effect change via normal political motion
Use non combat magic to manipulate others, (time travel, invisibility, foresight) effectively hoping to be a benevolent authoritarian
If he goes with 1, he has to maintain favor. You can see how tenuous that is, with his favor slipping during the unrest. The parents wouldn’t take their kids out of Hogwarts long term, they’d kick.dumbledore out instead.
For the most part it’s feasible that he could have made more direct changes to the school, yes. Good point.
Did you not present binary options where the first option is what Dumbledore did in the books and the other option is him being authoritarian. Are there more numbers on your option list I didn’t see?
The first is not being timid. You made that up. He is a prominent, popular member of the political class, with significant sway and influence.
At the end of the comment I acknowledged that he could probably have moved faster with changes at the school. Dunno if you read that far.
I’m essentially saying he can either be a rational, normal member of a society (albeit well positioned ), or resort to authoritarian options. Are you suggesting another, or did you just want to keep being annoying?
If he was against the use of house elves in the book he was extremely timid about it. At no point in the books does he present himself as a political player in the world.
Dumbledore got kicked out in Chamber of Secrets by the governors. If he started implementing more radical progressive changes, that would happen on an even quicker timeline.
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Yeah, it’s Harry Potter. Social change is the enemy in the book. At no point does anyone try to improve anything in the book. They don’t even oppose evil that much. They just oppose it when the existing evil tries to go too far by the current standards of evil.
Hermione tries to raise awareness about elf mistreatment.
It’s implied that Dumbledore was trying to influence Fudge to improve things in their regular correspondence before the GoF/OotP story arc.
For maybe two dozen paragraphs in one book, and then she gives up because literally no other wizard will support her.
Its just so funny that there’s a scene in Book 5 where Voldemort blows up a statue dedicated to Wizard Supremacy and you’re honestly not sure who the bad guy is anymore.
Tries and fails. It never goes anywhere, and she’s mocked as a well-meaning fool for trying in the first place because “welp most elves just enjoy being slaves what can you do shrug emoji”. Jkr sets up something with Hermione and the elves and then doesn’t follow through with it in any meaningful way (and I don’t count commentary from her outside the books as following through) so it’s left to just sit there uncritically as “slavery is a thing in this universe and is seen as completely normal by most characters, and only one person ever tries to do anything about it and she’s depicted as a cringey radical in the process”. Jkr doesn’t even show the beginnings of societal change like more elves coming to Dobby’s side of things once they see it’s an option and that Dobby’s is happy that way, or other house elves being motivated to think differently about their situation and starting to unlearn their generations of indoctrination. We don’t even see a glimpse of Winky starting to recover instead the last we see of her is as a depressed alcoholic whose life was ruined by her being freed from slavery. Jkr depicts it as “yeah slavery is bad but you can’t change the way the world works so might as well not even try.” the house elves’ servitude is treated as something so fundamentally tied to their species that it seems to be biological and thus humans taking advantage of that is to some degree the natural way of things which, I shouldn’t have to explain what the problem with that sort of depiction is. Maybe that wasn’t what she intended, maybe she just added slavery because it’s a common world building trope, but if that’s the case she did so without considering the implications or how it would come across in the end product or the messages it would send.
Holy shit. The more I read the less I like that woman. Biologically coded slavery? Sounds like some debunked phrenology bullshit.
If you reread the description of the Goblins at Gringots, you’ll find typical antisemitic stereotypes too.
Not even just in the writing.
Literally on the floor in the Goblin Bank in the movie.
There’s so many fucking racist tropes in the book that once you start glancing around you can’t stop seeing them.
In fairness, this is a common theme across all of JKR’s writings after Goblet of Fire.
Then she gets to meet the slave race they keep in the basement and said slaves explain that their enslavement is a fundamental part of magic society and the only reason Dobby in particular had to be freed was because his owners were a bit too mean to him. The message becomes “slavery is fine as long as slaves are treated well.”. Then they drop that particular can of worms because addressing it would require societal change. It is one of few endeavours where the heroes of the story just fail to do what they want.
Wtf? Hermione goes to a point where she tries her best to force the freedom on them (leaving clothes around so they accidentaly pick them up and) so be freed. I think it is canon that she still pursues it even after school and makes actual changes while working at the Ministry.
This sounds like a problem with media analysis. I don’t know how anyone could read the books and view her efforts as serious and successful actions.
This is lore from Pottermore I think, not something that was in the books.
Her trying to trick Hogwarts elves into freedom is actually part of the books
Yeah, I meant the bit where she improves their conditions while working at Ministry
I don’t respect Pottermore. It’s fanfiction about Wizards shitting in corners. If it’s not in the book you can’t use it to defend the book.
That’s fair tbh.
The house elves plot is one of the best examples of why the movies are significantly better than the books.
I feel that they avoid most of the insane choices of jk Rowling but does not fix them.
Fuck it. Some more rambles because the house elves drive me insane.
The correct response to a slave race that wants to be subjugated is to refuse. You can see in the books that the existance of slave races has made the Wizards worse people and it makes them used to treating other races, that are free and sentient, as slaves. Tons of sentient races we meet in the story are either service staff or set dressing for wizards amusement.
What the fuck, you’re right. Owning slaves is detrimental to how even the owners see the world. If we tolerate slavery even if we’re on the benefitting side, it alters our worldview to include better and lesser peoples.
Its crazy how a big part of subsequent novels is Dobby being unable to exist without slavishly devoting himself to another wizard. And his arc ends with him literally catching a bullet for Harry because he’s convinced his life is worth less than a wizard’s.
Just imagine reading “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” and the whole way through its just Jim finding newer and more obsequies ways to serve at Huck’s whims.
Dumbledore is the single most powerful wizard know, and the most influential in magical Britian. He runs a school where he is beloved by nearly everyone. If he wanted to change things, he easily could have done more. Especially since Fudge wasn’t very powerful and had to deal with an entire bureaucracy. Direct change at the school itself would have been feasible.
And while the parents might have threatened to remove their students, they weren’t really. Where else are they going to send their kids to get educated? There are other schools but the culture difference was so stark that seems unlikely.
That’s like saying “Dumbledore had the biggest assault rifle of anyone, so he can do anything”.
Sure he was a powerful duelist, but a group of others could take him down.
So, setting the “power” aside, he has 2 choices:
Operate within the system and bureaucracy to effect change via normal political motion
Use non combat magic to manipulate others, (time travel, invisibility, foresight) effectively hoping to be a benevolent authoritarian
If he goes with 1, he has to maintain favor. You can see how tenuous that is, with his favor slipping during the unrest. The parents wouldn’t take their kids out of Hogwarts long term, they’d kick.dumbledore out instead.
For the most part it’s feasible that he could have made more direct changes to the school, yes. Good point.
Yes, the two modes. Timid acceptance of the status quo with minor calls for change behind closed or full blown revolution and authoritarianism.
That’s not what I wrote.
Did you not present binary options where the first option is what Dumbledore did in the books and the other option is him being authoritarian. Are there more numbers on your option list I didn’t see?
The first is not being timid. You made that up. He is a prominent, popular member of the political class, with significant sway and influence.
At the end of the comment I acknowledged that he could probably have moved faster with changes at the school. Dunno if you read that far.
I’m essentially saying he can either be a rational, normal member of a society (albeit well positioned ), or resort to authoritarian options. Are you suggesting another, or did you just want to keep being annoying?
If he was against the use of house elves in the book he was extremely timid about it. At no point in the books does he present himself as a political player in the world.
Dumbledore got kicked out in Chamber of Secrets by the governors. If he started implementing more radical progressive changes, that would happen on an even quicker timeline.