• spiderwort@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      But what if my perspective differs?

      Argumentation cannot account for that.

      Argumentation requires a shared perspective and shared axioms.

        • spiderwort@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          8 months ago

          It isn’t a worldview devoid of reason. It’s perfectly good reason based upon a set of assumptions that differ from yours.

          Reason is the house. The preexisting assumptions is the ground upon which the house is built.

          Some ground is rock, some swamp, some flat, sloped… all require different house designs. Dig?

          • jeffw@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            There is still a foundation that you should be able to explain. Do you want to just explain what happened instead of talking in hypotheticals? What is your hot take?

          • techwooded@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            Correct me if I’m wrong, OP, but it sounds like you’re talking about retreating to the axioms of the particular belief system, as in there is a point where reason breaks down because you get to things that you (the person whose expressing their opinion) have accepted that’s different than me.

            To me this is a bit of a Motte and Bailey fallacy as your question was whether or not you have a good argument and then someone replied to that and then moved to the set of assumptions which has nothing to do with argument.

            For me personally, the other person has to demonstrate some level of critical reasoning for me to respect their opinions, even if their assumptions are different than mine. Beliefs that are entered into using reasoning are more useful than ones without because they can be changed which is what discourse is all about

        • spiderwort@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          8 months ago

          But language cannot convey perspective. It can only refer to it. Language only works when perspective is shared.

          If perspective is not shared then, tho we use the same words, the meaning we assign to them differs. We may appear to be communicating but we really aren’t quite, there’s something broken there, and that brokenness generally gets translated as “this guy is just stupid”.

          This is a problem with language and the internet.

            • spiderwort@lemm.eeOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              8 months ago

              Some opinions cannot be explained. For example “chocolate is better than vanilla”.

              There are a lot of those. It’s the earth upon which all argumentation stands.

              So at some point the question arises, “do I respect the individual?”

              But for us, on the internet, the individual doesn’t really exist?

              • snooggums@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                8 months ago

                “I enjoy chocolate more” and “I associate chocolate with positive memories” are both explanations that are still personal experience that isn’t necessarily shared experiences but can be understood through communication.

      • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        You can have different perspectives on observable facts. But if your perspective runs counter to observable facts then you’re simply wrong.