I am one of the admins of Beehaw and I’m trying to get some feedback on our potential move.
Let’s start out with a little Beehaw history before judgements are passed, please.
A handful of us were beta testing Tildes when we decided to have discussions on a Discord server.
We decided that our ‘Northern Star’ or guiding principle would culminate as ‘Be Nice’ with purposefully vague/flexible interpretations. Our overall goal is to provide a safe space to disenfranchised persons.
We talked for a little over a year and some of our members became impatient. Then someone stepped in to suggest a couple of platforms that we could consider getting started with.
One of those platforms was Lemmy. None of us knew, at that time, anything about ActivityPub.
During the Reddit exodus (surrounding the API outcry and blackout), our instance exploded. We were, initially, crippled by the mass amounts of users seeking refuge.
Thankfully, someone stepped in and volunteered hundreds of hours of work to stabilize our instance and refine it further.
After many hours of talks, it became clear to us that our overall goal could be achieved outside of Lemmy/ActivityPub.
Right now, we feel that Lemmy and ActivityPub have downsides that are limiting us from achieving that goal.
It would be a big loss for the fediverse, but if that’s what OG Beehaw users want, I don’t necessarily feel like we should have a say
The fuck are you asking non bee haw users for?
…because they’re a large fediverse instance, with a significant number of users and well-known communities?
While I would understand your reasoning for doing so, I would be disappointed to see it happen. There’s decent discussions on Beehaw that I enjoy taking part in, however if you guys decided to defederate or switch to a different platform entirely, I doubt that I would make another account somewhere else to follow. I like Beehaw’s content, but I have enough accounts to keep track of these days after everything split from Reddit, so it would ultimately be a loss for me.
I’m not sure if this is a commonly-held opinion for those of us outside of Beehaw, though.
Totally agree. It’s such a shame the issues with lemmy can’t be fixed to Beehaw’s satisfaction.
You’ve already defederated lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, so I don’t care
Came to say much of the same. If “be nice” is a guiding principal, defederation with a bogus reason then never refederating is a thing I’d like to see gone from the fediverse.
So don’t let the door hit ya on the way out
To be honest, I probably wouldn’t notice. I don’t think I follow anything on Beehaw and I don’t see much content from there. I tried to join a while ago when I first joined Lemmy, but was never approved. I kind of thought it was already a pretty closed off community, so it wouldn’t really change my opinion much. It would be sad for your users who will probably not receive benefit they otherwise would, but if that’s what they want, then either you’ll provide it or someone else will.
Edit: Apparently I don’t see anything from you because my instance was already defederated by you. I guess that explains it.
As a lemmy.world user, I’m already essentially banned from there, so I wouldn’t notice either.
In the earlier days of lemmy.world, I really enjoyed participating in many of the Beehaw communities. It soured my taste from them when they banned us all without warning when 99% of us didn’t even do anything.
I don’t know that Lemmy is necessarily suitable for what Beehaw is trying to achieve with their walked garden.
Look, I get it…making a safe space is admirable and can be tricky. But initially putting Beehaw out as an open instance didn’t end up being the right move. Going to a different platform entirely like Discord or Tildes seems to make more sense for the intent.
Beehaw is my home in the fediverse, and I’m happy here. I like that they try to maintain a positive community. But if Beehaw left the fediverse, I wouldn’t come along. Which is a change from thinking I might last time I saw this topic come up.
If beehaw ends up in a silo I think it will just have too little to offer for me. And that’s ok. This isn’t about me, it’s about creating a safe space for your disenfranchised users.
I hope Beehaw stays, but I understand if they don’t.
I was a beehaw user for about a day. I had a lot of very pleasant interactions with other users, it was totally surprising how different and good the vibe was. And then an admin decided that a perfectly pleasant interaction I’d had with someone was unacceptable, called me pompous, banned me, and deleted the thread. And I’m used to being called pompous, because I have NPD and it’s one of the symptoms of my disorder. I can be nice and pompous, but only if someone’s willing to look past my disorder and see who I am and what I’m doing, instead of how I look.
So I would like it very much if the Beehaw admins left the fediverse and the rest of you guys stayed.
Late Reply: This is going to sound harsh but it’s true. I wouldn’t miss it. If Beehaw disappeared tomorrow I probably wouldn’t even notice, and I’m sure that would be the case for many other people here. The problem is that because Beehaw has defederated so aggressively from the largest instances and shut its doors to new users, and people just moved on, or didn’t notice or care. I spent most of my first days on Lemmy.world and consequently didn’t see a majority of the content from Beehaw, but I did see many upset users who had to Migrate from Beehaw due to the defederations since most of the content and communities they wanted access to wasn’t available to them on Beehaw.
Since Beehaw didn’t (and still doesn’t) have community creation enabled it never really had niche communities like other instances did, it is rather forgettable because of that, what most people will remember it for though is the defederations and having to migrate accounts to not be cut off from the rest of the fediverse.
Good riddance, Beehaw is terrible. It was maybe the single biggest exporter of concern-trolling about lemmy.ml and to my knowledge still entertains absurdly reactionary comms for no reason (though I haven’t brushed up on my lore in a while). Go make your blue Raddle.
More constructively: Having your “Northern Star” be “intentionally vague” is not a good practice. Having clear rules is a much better way to avoid falling into “what did the mod who reviewed the report feel like doing at the time?” arbitration issues. If you want to serve disenfranchised communities well,* then have that be the foundation and clearly define what that means and why you are doing it.
*My experience with this was that Beehaw was more about first world radlibs patting themselves on the back, but I digress
I was banned from Beehaw for being “pompous”. I have narcissistic personality disorder, being pompous is one of the symptoms. I was being nice, polite, and complying with everyone’s requests, but I did so pompously, because I’m disabled. You’re 100% right, Beehaw is run be ableist radlibs and their word “nice” is a dogwhistle for “neurotypical”.
why would you delete your comment, then make a new account and use it to post the same comment?
Oh, I didn’t do that. I made a new account and posted the same comment, and THEN I deleted my old comment. I didn’t want to spam the thread with duplicates.
What’s a Beehaw?
Reddit but even more insufferable
You’re doing Truth social but with nice people. Very few people want to hang out in an echo chamber.
The foundation of your instance is a handful of sand, so I don’t think it matters if you stay or go.
Beehaw is hardly and echo chamber. Generally defederation is done because of significant trolling or other negative behavior from an instance, not a disagreement with a philosophy.
I think an excellent example of how Beehaw allows opposing opinions is that you and I, who clearly disagree, are still able to talk about it.
The thing we want at Beehaw is respectful discourse. So long as neither party is insulting the other and conversation is productive it doesn’t matter if the opinions differ.
That said, I myself would probably not follow Beehaw off of ActivityPub. I prefer the content on Beehaw to most of the content in the fediverse, but I don’t want to maintain multiple accounts and Beehaw would definitely have less content if it moved off of the fediverse.
You didn’t say why. Bit pointless having a discussion about nothing
Defederating Beehaw would not only weaken it as an instance, but remove its positive influence from the wider fediverse. The big platforms wield so much power and influence and money, the smaller upstarts need to connect as much as possible to stand a chance at relevance as a credible alternative. We’re all better together. I really hope you reconsider.
I’m subbed to some communities on Beehaw and I would miss them. But not enough to make an account on Beehaw to get them back.
Beehaw as an instance doesn’t have nearly enough content to justify defederation. It wouldn’t be missed if they moved somewhere else.
That being said, I do enjoy the discussions and would personally be disappointed to see it move or be closed off, but not enough to move with it.
Leave already
Lol. Lmao even.
