Quantum mechanics show a break between the classical understanding of physics and the equations and laws derived from plain observation and the probabilistic and unstable nature of matter and energy at the smallest observable level.
Physics isn’t a done deal, we don’t know how a lot of stuff works. Our simplified classical models clearly don’t work on every level, but that doesn’t mean gravity suddenly doesn’t pull the earth and the moon towards each other.
Large scale physics (somewhere between molecules and stars) is full of simplified models. From spherical cows to “assume you’re walking along a perfectly straight, frictionless surface in a vacuum”, very few of the formulae taught in school actually model what really happens. They’re approximations that work at every relevant scale of physics, as we lack the ability to accurately simulate the chaotic nature of individual particles and energy fields.
Scientists were initially hoping that we could use Newton’s laws to describe how atoms interact (and then quarks and such, when they were discovered) and quantum theory has proven that this is not possible. That does not prove or disprove the existence of a higher being, it just proves that earlier extrapolations were wrong.
There’s no common definition of “natural cause” within physics as a science, so there’s no way to prove or disprove anything regarding natural causes. You can define the term within a specific paper, but that just proves or disproves something within the confines of that specific paper, experiment, and definition. I can call a puddle of water “Jesus”, evaporate the puddle, and claim to have killed God, but outside of my own wacky experiment nothing religious has happened.
Science will never be able to prove a negative, so no matter what happens, belief in the mere existence of the supernatural is always a possibility. Religion brings forth very few scientifically provable facts. We know lightning is caused by electrical discharge now, but we’ll never be able to prove that it’s not caused by an invisible Donar riding around in the heavens, swinging his hammer.
Oh dear. There are already two lemmings in this thread spreading this one.
Would you and @muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee and @Didros@beehaw.org please just look up “can you prove a negative or not” using your research method of choice. Make this the day you learn.
You can prove a negative in the mathematical sense, sure. You can’t prove a negative when the supernatural gets involved. Physics, chemistry, and biology aren’t Maths, and the supernatural isn’t formally defined mathematics.
I don’t think the second coming of Christ will have a tough job proving himself. Apocalyptic monsters and the dead rising would be a pretty clear way to prove the supernatural. So yes, it sure is possible.
People have certainly tried to prove weaker supernatural events. That includes government researchers looking into telepathy. Double blind tests have so far failed to prove every scientific claim about supernatural powers and experiences brought forward so far.
I haven’t seen any convincing evidence of the supernatural and the onus of proof is on the one that comes with the claim. Often, these claims are vague, imprecise, and noncommittal, so the proof is often weak and impossible to verify. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say, and so far all the evidence I’ve been presented with had come down to “someone wrote this in a book millenia ago” and “I just feel it”.
Quantum mechanics show a break between the classical understanding of physics and the equations and laws derived from plain observation and the probabilistic and unstable nature of matter and energy at the smallest observable level.
Physics isn’t a done deal, we don’t know how a lot of stuff works. Our simplified classical models clearly don’t work on every level, but that doesn’t mean gravity suddenly doesn’t pull the earth and the moon towards each other.
Large scale physics (somewhere between molecules and stars) is full of simplified models. From spherical cows to “assume you’re walking along a perfectly straight, frictionless surface in a vacuum”, very few of the formulae taught in school actually model what really happens. They’re approximations that work at every relevant scale of physics, as we lack the ability to accurately simulate the chaotic nature of individual particles and energy fields.
Scientists were initially hoping that we could use Newton’s laws to describe how atoms interact (and then quarks and such, when they were discovered) and quantum theory has proven that this is not possible. That does not prove or disprove the existence of a higher being, it just proves that earlier extrapolations were wrong.
There’s no common definition of “natural cause” within physics as a science, so there’s no way to prove or disprove anything regarding natural causes. You can define the term within a specific paper, but that just proves or disproves something within the confines of that specific paper, experiment, and definition. I can call a puddle of water “Jesus”, evaporate the puddle, and claim to have killed God, but outside of my own wacky experiment nothing religious has happened.
Science will never be able to prove a negative, so no matter what happens, belief in the mere existence of the supernatural is always a possibility. Religion brings forth very few scientifically provable facts. We know lightning is caused by electrical discharge now, but we’ll never be able to prove that it’s not caused by an invisible Donar riding around in the heavens, swinging his hammer.
Oh dear. There are already two lemmings in this thread spreading this one.
Would you and @muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee and @Didros@beehaw.org please just look up “can you prove a negative or not” using your research method of choice. Make this the day you learn.
You can prove a negative in the mathematical sense, sure. You can’t prove a negative when the supernatural gets involved. Physics, chemistry, and biology aren’t Maths, and the supernatural isn’t formally defined mathematics.
Can you prove a positive where the supernatural is involved?
I don’t think the second coming of Christ will have a tough job proving himself. Apocalyptic monsters and the dead rising would be a pretty clear way to prove the supernatural. So yes, it sure is possible.
People have certainly tried to prove weaker supernatural events. That includes government researchers looking into telepathy. Double blind tests have so far failed to prove every scientific claim about supernatural powers and experiences brought forward so far.
I haven’t seen any convincing evidence of the supernatural and the onus of proof is on the one that comes with the claim. Often, these claims are vague, imprecise, and noncommittal, so the proof is often weak and impossible to verify. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say, and so far all the evidence I’ve been presented with had come down to “someone wrote this in a book millenia ago” and “I just feel it”.
You should read the meta-analyses of the ganzfeld experiments.