By that I mean no alienating tech like Tiktok and such, strong middle class, normal seasons/no worry of climate crisis, general optimism about the future etc. etc.

  • Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org
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    3 months ago

    Can I ask a doubt?
    Bourgeoisie, Petite Bourgeoisie, Proletarait & Lumpenproletariat

    What would be simpler terms(or brief 3-5 word plain language explanations) for those?
    Ultra rich wealth/land hoarders/exploiters, Their immediate managers, facilitators and upper mid-level wealth/land hoarders, Average workers & Average people who are dissatisfied?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Bourgeoisie - Capital Owners, doesn’t need to labor to survive

      Petite Bourgeoisie - Small Capital Owners, must labor to survive

      Proletariat - Workers, sell their labor power to survive and own little to no Capital

      Lumpenproletariat - criminals, sex workers, the scorned laborers of society

    • The_sleepy_woke_dialectic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      3 months ago

      I think the established socialist terms are best, even if they require further explanation because our definition and understanding of “class” is the distinction between us and your average Republican. It’s the definition from which our entire understanding of politics flows. To a Republican “class” is a series of virtues you signal, self reliance by having a pickup truck, being a hard worker by having working man boots and not being college educated. A petit- or bourgeois man born with a silver spoon in his mouth can still be happily brought into the fold of “working class” so long as they get their hands dirty and don’t talk like “the liberal elite”.

      To a Marxist, “class” is based on whether you have an exploitative or exploited relationship to production.

      • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        Socialist terms are fine for those politically involved but you need more digestible info for the masses. Keep it very simple. “The Working Class” is sometimes even too much. You need to reframe the US vs THEM to be Rich vs everyone else.

        Dont say poor either. People dont want to think of themselves as poor even if they are. A lot of poor Americans think theyre middle class or petite bougouise but they arent. So steal the language. The Billionaires are attacking the middle class! Instead of convincing them they are something different than what they think they are just use their language to reshape their perspective.

        • The_sleepy_woke_dialectic [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          You do have to tailor the message for the audience, but in this context I think sticking with words and phrases which invoke the whole revolutionary Marxist tradition are a positive. Tailoring your message too far runs the risk of losing some of it. You have to meet them where they are but the goal is to guide them to where you are. When I hear someone say “Billionaires are attacking the middle class” I just tune it out to be honest, because it sounds identical to the background noise of performative liberals, accidentally based for ten seconds republicans, and dead-end utopians. Ambiguously contrarian. I think a liberal will hear it the same way. I want to say “look, we have dusty tomes and academics and structures and traditions and all of that too. We aren’t just screaming into the void.” I think that works, or at least it worked for me.

          • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            Ya well thats why populist right wing messaging works so well. Its simple. A large portion of americans have like a grade school reading level u cant be throwing around big words they dont understand or theyll tune you out. Its something Donald Trump does really well and part of why he is so popular. He speaks in simple terms, and small words. The anger someone like Trump harnesses and aims toward immigrants and trans people could just as easily be aimed toward the rich. A revolution is not done by academics and marxists. Its our job to guide the revolution and make sure it ends in socialism. The revolution itself is a destructive and violent act largely carried out by the masses who have no real ideology outside of wanting to be comfortable.

            When the masses anger is directed at the institutions of oppression they will tear them down, and in the chaos a much smaller group of educated and prepared marxists can use that opportunity to take the reigns and guide things to a socialist future. The actual education of the masses on marxism and socialist ideas comes after. You can educate people now, but youll never be able to do it at scale until we are already in power. What we need right now is a strong and organized small group who are ready to spring into action when the time is right. Like the Bolsheviks. You have a small professional group that has a clear vision to shape the chaos of revolution into something positive.

    • Raymond Shannon@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Ultra rich wealth/land hoarders/exploiters

      upper mid-level wealth/land hoarders,

      Depends, there’s many in history that can fit the bill (eg. feudal lords (rent), industrial capitalists (profit), slaveowners (profit), and aristocracy of finance and land (interest and rent) )

      Their immediate managers, facilitators

      Professional managerial class, or compradors for the main dominant capitalist group (eg. the West) / hegemonic capitalist group

      Average workers & Average people who are dissatisfied?

      Proletariat and lumpenprole?

    • Raymond Shannon@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Let’s see here

      Bourgeoisie:

      includes grande (big) and moyenne (medium) bourgeoisie, but essentially they are medium (regional/national) and large (global) capitalists, that mainly rely on industrial profit, if not landed rend, and financial interest, based around growing industrial and financial production

      Though I consider bourgeoisie in its western context, to specifically refer to the first modern form in Europe, birthed from the Medieval period

      Bourg-eois --> Bourg derives from the medieval German term for “city”, as they derived from the growing cities of their era

      Petty-bourgeoisie:

      a small business owner (only a handful of businesses directly owned by them)

      Proletariat:

      wage/salaried laborers who depend heavily on their wage/salary, lest a few days/weeks leave em destitute and homeless

      They are historically converted from the destruction of peasants, yeomanry, guild craftsmen, apprentices and mentors, during the progressive bourgeois revolution against feudalism.

      Originally, in Rome, such term was derived from those citizens who made offspring to serve the Roman slave mode of production

      Lumpenproletariat

      despite its name, it is a similarly newly-created class of capitalism, more destitute and ruined than the proletariat, defined by a lack of official joblessness and stability, which include people from the simply unemployed and unhoused to criminals, strike-breakers, prostitutes, and gangsters

      They are a wild card that can ally with either bourgeois or proletariat forces

      Lumpen (rabble) + proletariat