The target age demographic is always at most (PG-) 13. Because this target does not change, if the viewer matures, the nostalgia of youth will never align with the expectations of the matured mind. It is the entire tenured ratings system and standardized ultra simplistic morality culture that prevent capitalization on an evolving demographic. Instead, everyone consuming this media is incentivised to remain adolescent of mind or complain about how elements of their childhood fail to align with their evolved and matured expectations.
I think a lot of that is a product of the bottleneck of information and media back then. People went to the movies because there wasn’t as much to do or sources of information. There were not a dozen films competing for your patronage in the same way as in more recent times. The world moved more conservatively slowly where calculating risk was very different. Also ratings were kinda a new and less relevant thing I think, but that was long before I was ever born.
The California culture of risk with enormous funds and technology at the time was also huge and had a big impact on SW that was forging that bleeding edge and melding the old with the new. We’re in an upheaval era of promise right now too, but it is orders of magnitude more expensive and complicated than it was in the 1970’s-1980’s. Even adjusting for inflation there is no comparison between the cost of a silicon chip fab and edge technology between then and now. The price of novel innovation has changed from someone adapting a new idea to someone contracting established firms.
The old ways cost enormous labor. It is fine and manageable when that cost is normalized across society in the cost of living. It is impossible to return to that paradigm once that normalization is lost. Society would collapse if the necessary changes were made to make mass labor viable at the scales of the past. So, the risk changes and so must the media.
Are they tho? I never watched Star Wars growing up and watched the originals only recently the light saber “fights” are as clumsy as me getting out of bed on a cold Sunday morning.
Sure, some of the choreography wasn’t up to par with modern standards. But the script was actually interesting, whereas the prequels are just an illogical, boring mess.
Check out Red Letter Media’s review for tons of arguments for how bad the prequels are. I agree with pretty much all of their points. And while the original movies also have problems, they aren’t anywhere near this many or this bad.
It was a paraphrased quote of Lukas himself that said he made the first films for 10 year olds and the second series for 5 year olds. You need to see it from the perspective of someone willing to risk losing tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in a gamble that is never a sure thing. The artistry is a very minor often overlooked aspect when this kind of money is in play. I’ve had a job spending a couple of million dollars a year where my mistakes could cost a chain of businesses closing and around three dozen jobs. Buying high end bicycles at that scale requires me to completely disconnect my opinion and style biases and become an account first and foremost. People do not take risks to tell stories, they tell stories that follow an interpretation of statistical metrics.
The targeted movie rating is key to demographic and without a demographic there are no numbers to make a financial argument for the risk. Films are made TO fit, not made AND fit. The risk is never blind.
Just because something is made for teenagers or younger doesn’t mean they have to be bad though. I would say the original three Star Wars are a good example of that, sure they were fun for kids, but they didn’t need dumbed down or made insincere for children to be able to enjoy them. Look at the golden age of Pixar movies which, sure, are children movies, but are also just movies that hold up for adults too.
There’s nothing wrong with disconnecting and enjoying simple things. I love watching some kids movies too. The observation is more nuanced and refers to the way we tend to fail to see our interpersonal growth over time. We tend to see nostalgia without the influence of how we matured. It is like our memory of the thing has matured in imperceptible ways.
I struggle for the words to really describe it outright now that I try. I’m coming from the mindset of writing my own hard science fiction universe and the perspective it has given me, especially when it comes to underlying storytelling frameworks, social/political structures, and defining what is fantasy magic.
Like is a solar ring structure used to make antimatter safely to one way interstellar generation ships magic? It is for the scale of human economy today. Is it fantasy to imagine self replicating drones? I think it is just a matter of time and scale, where I am willing to say at kilometers scale it is possible. It is basically packaging an industrial complex in space. So that seems reasonable. However I find moving faster than causality and space navies childish nonsense. I see exceptionalism as the doctrine of a neo feudal oligarchy, and a story of inevitable tyranny of an authoritarian monster repulsive.
I had no clue about these themes as a child, but now I can’t unsee them. I dob not think most people have or care about this kind of defined awareness, but I think these undertones exist just outside of their awareness.
Outside of the philosophical, just telling a congruent story is critical, and those failures are egregious in any story.
The target age demographic is always at most (PG-) 13. Because this target does not change, if the viewer matures, the nostalgia of youth will never align with the expectations of the matured mind. It is the entire tenured ratings system and standardized ultra simplistic morality culture that prevent capitalization on an evolving demographic. Instead, everyone consuming this media is incentivised to remain adolescent of mind or complain about how elements of their childhood fail to align with their evolved and matured expectations.
This is why Andor is so great. It’s star wars but it’s for grown ups.
I’m not falling for that again. I’ve heard that many different times about different movies and shows, and they’re always very clearly made for kids.
You should make an exception.
Except the old movies are much better when compared side by side to the new ones, nostalgia or not.
I think a lot of that is a product of the bottleneck of information and media back then. People went to the movies because there wasn’t as much to do or sources of information. There were not a dozen films competing for your patronage in the same way as in more recent times. The world moved more conservatively slowly where calculating risk was very different. Also ratings were kinda a new and less relevant thing I think, but that was long before I was ever born.
The California culture of risk with enormous funds and technology at the time was also huge and had a big impact on SW that was forging that bleeding edge and melding the old with the new. We’re in an upheaval era of promise right now too, but it is orders of magnitude more expensive and complicated than it was in the 1970’s-1980’s. Even adjusting for inflation there is no comparison between the cost of a silicon chip fab and edge technology between then and now. The price of novel innovation has changed from someone adapting a new idea to someone contracting established firms.
The old ways cost enormous labor. It is fine and manageable when that cost is normalized across society in the cost of living. It is impossible to return to that paradigm once that normalization is lost. Society would collapse if the necessary changes were made to make mass labor viable at the scales of the past. So, the risk changes and so must the media.
Are they tho? I never watched Star Wars growing up and watched the originals only recently the light saber “fights” are as clumsy as me getting out of bed on a cold Sunday morning.
Sure, some of the choreography wasn’t up to par with modern standards. But the script was actually interesting, whereas the prequels are just an illogical, boring mess.
Check out Red Letter Media’s review for tons of arguments for how bad the prequels are. I agree with pretty much all of their points. And while the original movies also have problems, they aren’t anywhere near this many or this bad.
Yes. Senate hearings and trade disputes are for kids. 👍
It was a paraphrased quote of Lukas himself that said he made the first films for 10 year olds and the second series for 5 year olds. You need to see it from the perspective of someone willing to risk losing tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in a gamble that is never a sure thing. The artistry is a very minor often overlooked aspect when this kind of money is in play. I’ve had a job spending a couple of million dollars a year where my mistakes could cost a chain of businesses closing and around three dozen jobs. Buying high end bicycles at that scale requires me to completely disconnect my opinion and style biases and become an account first and foremost. People do not take risks to tell stories, they tell stories that follow an interpretation of statistical metrics.
The targeted movie rating is key to demographic and without a demographic there are no numbers to make a financial argument for the risk. Films are made TO fit, not made AND fit. The risk is never blind.
Just because something is made for teenagers or younger doesn’t mean they have to be bad though. I would say the original three Star Wars are a good example of that, sure they were fun for kids, but they didn’t need dumbed down or made insincere for children to be able to enjoy them. Look at the golden age of Pixar movies which, sure, are children movies, but are also just movies that hold up for adults too.
There’s nothing wrong with disconnecting and enjoying simple things. I love watching some kids movies too. The observation is more nuanced and refers to the way we tend to fail to see our interpersonal growth over time. We tend to see nostalgia without the influence of how we matured. It is like our memory of the thing has matured in imperceptible ways.
I struggle for the words to really describe it outright now that I try. I’m coming from the mindset of writing my own hard science fiction universe and the perspective it has given me, especially when it comes to underlying storytelling frameworks, social/political structures, and defining what is fantasy magic.
Like is a solar ring structure used to make antimatter safely to one way interstellar generation ships magic? It is for the scale of human economy today. Is it fantasy to imagine self replicating drones? I think it is just a matter of time and scale, where I am willing to say at kilometers scale it is possible. It is basically packaging an industrial complex in space. So that seems reasonable. However I find moving faster than causality and space navies childish nonsense. I see exceptionalism as the doctrine of a neo feudal oligarchy, and a story of inevitable tyranny of an authoritarian monster repulsive.
I had no clue about these themes as a child, but now I can’t unsee them. I dob not think most people have or care about this kind of defined awareness, but I think these undertones exist just outside of their awareness.
Outside of the philosophical, just telling a congruent story is critical, and those failures are egregious in any story.