I have a 2010 Toyota Corolla. She’s been my trusty steed for the last 14 years and is in good working order. I recognize she won’t last forever, and if, god forbid (mostly for her) I get in an accident, I will need to get a new car. So what dumb cars do you drive, and what would you replace them with?
I see very little mention of Mazda here. 2014+ Mazda 6 or more recent 3 or cx3 are great looking and aren’t all out on tech that would drive you nuts. And much more fun to drive than Toyota. Give those a look.
When you say dumb, do you mean like with minimal computers? I think I remember reading about Mercedes or something working on a vehicle that’s entirely mechanical with zero computer integration. I imagine it would be pretty expensive though
I would prefer something old enough it wouldn’t even have a backup camera
Why? I wouldn’t go without a backup camera. It only takes one time for a small child running after a ball to slip your eye and you’ve got blood on your hands. When a driver gets behind the wheel, they are barely in control of a multi-ton murder machine. A backup camera is a very easy-to-use tool to keep the murder machine under control.
So staring at a tiny screen on your dashboard makes you less likely to hit a child that already would’ve gone unnoticed if you were actively looking in multiple directions with a wider field of vision?
Yes. The backup camera shows you the ground level, you still use the mirrors but kids and cats are not always tall enough to see in the mirrors. It’s an additional view, did you think it blacks out the mirrors or something?
You should always be looking behind you, checking mirrors, and checking the backup camera. I am a rookie driver and even I know that much.
Yes I know, my point is that not having a reversing camera forces you to look around. Every time I’ve been a passenger in a car with a reversing cam the driver has never checked their mirrors or looked behind them, they just trust that the reversing camera can see everything.
Oh, huh, I guess being in training just kind of forces me to think about good habits instead of getting lazy. I’m also more used to biking, where I have a mirror and shoulder glances as my primary tools. But either way, I would want to have the tool, since I know I will use it correctly.
It’s just another tool. You wouldn’t only look in your passenger side mirror just because you have one. Use it along with all your other tools. Most standard cars have 3 mirrors and a backup camera. Most drivers also have necks they can turn.
Backup cameras have better visibility than you do from the drivers seat usually. That said, I would put in an aftermarket one rather than get a factory one.
You have to buy one prior to 2018 then. I believe that was the year it became standard.
I think its a law that new cars must be sold with them.
Presumably that depends where you live.
Yes for the US backup cameras are required after 2018
They became required because a dad backed over and killed his own son. That father fought for years to make them required so no one would have to go through the same pain he went through. Why would you not want one? You could not look at it if you don’t like it. But it’s one of the best possible safety features imo, and it’s dirt cheap compared to the cost of a car.
I agree with you from a safety standpoint. It’s not the backup camera itself. It’s the screen and all of the additional things that come with it that I don’t want. To me it’s an inflection point.
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Remotely stop it why? How is that a safety feature?
For that, they’d have to develop an entirely new engine, which they then couldn’t sell in Europe, America, Australia or most of Asia due to emissions regulations. So maybe they’re doing it, but it will be a one-off prestige project at the end of the internal combustion engine age, and all of them will be put in museums or private collections.
Maybe there’s just reusing an old OM601/602 from the 80s like diesel swappers are into.
No way. Anyone have a link? Its gotta at least have electronic fuel injection. A 2025 Benz with a carburetor and old school distributor is not believable.
Mechanical injection diesels could work with no digital computer, but getting one through modern emissions tests in any countries with half a standard should be impossible.
Is 2002 recent? Still loving my vintage wrx.
When the wheels fall off I’d like to go with something electric, but those tend to be phones with wheels. Maybe a used volt?
Technically? It’s 3 years off from antique.
Hey if it still runs and they were readily available. In terms of recent I was talking newer than my car, old enough not to have a computer system or backup lights.
Every car you could buy in the past 20 years had a computer system, because you can’t meet emissions regulations without fuel injection.
In Europe, the Dacia Sandero base model is a car that literally only comes with what’s needed to drive or mandated by law.
The previous generation was still available with wind-up windows, no power steering and no radio.I don’t know about any offerings in the US market.
I think OP is probably thinking of the kind of car computers that require you to use a touchscreen to control the windshield wipers, or turn off heated seats if you haven’t paid your monthly rental fee. Not a car built entirely without microchips.
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My wife has driven both her Hyundai Accent (2012), and her Kia Forte (2011) for 300k miles. Technically I think they’re the exact same car. Transmissions have never given us a problem, but we change the fluid in them religiously at 50k miles; and oil every 10k.
Occasionally we’ll have to change a battery, alternator, or coil-pack, but other than that they’ve been great.
Alternatively, does anyone know of (a) car(s) which are easy to remove any computer systems?
While you “can” strip computer systems off a car… It is not recommended, for you never know the underlying impact (interms of interconnectedness) what you are removing has to the crucial driving routines…
I mean, you might unplug the heating of your car seat, and turns out the car thinks you have no seat… That sorta thing…
Edit: Unless the hacks are made public (of which are barely available, since they are a part of companys’ trade secrets, someone’s butt will get a proper suing for this) Just avoid them completely if you can.
Subaru Crosstrek remains about as analog as a car can be these days. Otherwise, you have to get a Chevrolet pickup truck or something.
I have one. It’s great, but I wouldn’t consider it a “dumb” car, just by Starlink alone. OP can probably opt to bypass it (there are tools out there to completely disconnect it from the infotainment system). That aside, it has a TON of tech on it that can only be controlled via the computer system, which OP wants to avoid.
Yeah, but all Subaru’s are now coming with cvt transmission and there have been some negative news concerning the durability of cvt transmissions in general
The new corollas are just as good.
I don’t know if this is a smart feature, but it makes me feel dumb
So dont use remote start?
Toyota wants to lock people out of features built into their cars.
Would you say the same thing if they started charging monthly for using the seat warmers?
If you want a dumb car and they disable the modules or features that could fail and are considered “smart”, and adjust costs appropriately, then what’s the problem?
If a Toyota connects to the internet to receive instructions to disable things built into the car, it is too smart of a car for its own good.
Are you seriously on the “sell my heated seats back to me” train? Because that’s happened too.
Modern software works like that.
I resto-mod EFI onto old carb’d vehicles and I wish it had wireless updates. When you scale to Toyota’s size, it makes very little sense to require a service tech to perform software updates manually.
I sort of support the idea of selling a car with components disabled. It costs more to re-tool the assembly line than it does to build it all the same. For instance, many trucks have wiring to support towing but it’s not plugged in.
This is because there are additional costs such as warranty repairs for those types of components.
If a seat heater stops working, but was never enabled, it doesn’t need to get fixed under warranty. You also don’t need to worry about software code causing problems with that module since it’s disabled.
I don’t support anything that obstructs someone from turning that feature on though. If you can wire up a switch to heat your seats then great. I can understand why you shouldn’t expect to be able to hack the ecm or module to make it work though.
You’ve launched into full-on apologia for why dumb cars are bad, this just makes your suggestion look worse
Can you clarify exactly what you mean by a “dumb car”? Do you just mean that it doesn’t have a screen in the cockpit? Or something else?
Internet connected (smart) or non-internet connected (dumb). At least that’s what this phrase means with all other context.
Understood, but OP mentioned that he wanted something without a backup camera, so that’s why I was asking for clarification.
Not OP, but my most recent car is a 2016 Hyundai Accent, and I think it’s perfect. The doors and ignition operate with physical keys, the displays are all physical indicators directly behind the wheel, all the controls have tactile, physical buttons instead of a touchscreen, no infotainment system, and no subscription options.
I don’t think I’d ever want a car more “smart” than that, but I’m not sure such a thing even exists anymore.
My 2016 Audi A3 is also very analog/dumb and it’s perfect. Physical controls for everything, seemingly no privacy concerns, and I easily added a module for Android Auto/Apple Car play to it.
For about ten years prior to 2020, I only had a company car. I’ve gone the past four without a car but I’m looking around for something to make it easier to visit family and take short trips.
Not only is the cost of a new car mindmelting, all the crap they put in them now is detrimental to me considering anything made in the past few years. I would sooner opt for a car with roll down windows and an AM radio than have to drive down the street with a giant computer screen shining in my face pinging me with all sorts of distractions. And that’s coming from someone who spent over ten years installing car stereos and remote starts, etc.
I don’t know what to do either. I’m looking at cars made around 2010-2015. I’d probably drive less than 2,000 miles a year but I’d still worry about wasting money on something that isn’t going to last me at least ten years. I also have a thing for cars that feel good to drive, typically German cars, so these cheap little Hyundais and such probably aren’t something I’d consider.
for less than 2000 miles a year its likely better to just rent?
Like Enterprise? I’ve looked into this. First, the demand goes up / supply goes down when everyone without a car wants to rent a car for the holidays. Second, there’s only one facility anywhere near me. Third, they have limited hours when you can pick up and drop off making it unreasonably difficult (only open til 12 on Saturdays, closed Sundays).
I also looked into car sharing. I forget the name of the service but I’ve spoken with people who have rented out their cars for it. It’s a scam. People have had thousands of dollars withdrawn from their bank accounts for minor body damage without warning and without evidence that they were responsible.
There’s some locally run car shares that are better. Here in the Twin Cities we have Evie, maybe your area has something similar?
Buy another Toyota no newer than 2013 and you’ll be good.
Is the Holden/Vauxhall/Opel/Chevrolet Astra available in your country? I had one for a few years, tidy little car, built well, runs well. When it was written off I bought another, very happy with it.
“Dumb car” is kind of relative. Computer engine controls have been around since the mid 1970’s. And while the first ones were not very good, they have become pretty darned reliable over the intervening years. And as someone who has owned cars and other heavy equipment with mechanical points and down draft and up draft carburetors, you won’t ever see me willingly own a car with any of that anymore.
If you really want to minimize the electronics as much as possible, look at 1990’s to no later than 2010 models.
Though to be fair, much of the problems with cars are caused by the accessories like power windows, door locks, air conditioning, and power seats. Those are far more problematic than the basic car itself.
I think they mean all the newer techno crap that cars have like touch screens and the like not power windows, AC and engine related stuff thats been around for decades. And I agree with that. I want a car that has the basics and yeet the touch screens and other garbage no one asked for but it seems theres not really any choice anymore.
I think this thread just goes to show that ‘modern technology crap’ is relative. For some, adaptive cruise control is modern technology crap, for others, electronic fuel injection is modern technology crap. I recall when power windows were thought to be crap, because when the switch breaks, you can’t open the window any more. It’s the same with any new tech.
Those touch screens are all a part of the accessories. And I dislike them intensely also. I also find it very disheartening that in some new cars a software up date is needed to make the dock locks work. A friend had to take his mother’s Kia in to rematch the door locks to a new key. They needed to remove the door handles and plug them into a computer to do so.
The last new car I bought, (2015 Jeep Patriot), made me search EVERY car dealer in 2 states before I found one that had manual door locks and manual windows. I often haul dogs around with me and while they are quite good at locking doors and rolling up windows, they really, really suck at rolling them down or unlocking the doors. It took me a couple of months of weekly searching to finally find one for sale.
Kia are bastards when it comes to anti consumer practices, my 2012 Kia had an airbag warning light come on right before it’s MOT and my usual garage said they couldn’t read the fault code, I tried specialised diagnostic readers and even borrowed a garage spec one from a neighbour and still couldn’t get anything from it.
In the end I had to take it to Kia themselves and get them to read the fault code for £130, turns out the fault was exactly what everyone thought it was but couldn’t confirm and now they want £750 to replace a single airbag module that needs to be coded to the car once it’s installed. My car has been in their garage since the start of January and there’s still no sign of the part arriving yet but I can’t install one myself because of the fact that only Kia can recode it to match the car.
When people refer to “smart” vs “dumb” cars, I don’t think they’re referring to the ECU. They’re referring to internet connected vs non-internet connected cars, in which internet connectivity is still a fairly recent development.
I daily drive a vehicle with a factory tape deck and CD changer, where all the electronics work flawlessly, from the sunroof to the back window rolling down. My wife wants me to ditch it, but they’re going to have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands.
Many Toyotas. Even their newest series LandCruiser is doing well and will continue the legacy of doing well because durable mechanical simplicity is what it brings to the competitive table.
A lot of Toyotas last a long time and are easy to work on. That in turn makes them popular, making parts for them even cheaper.
Honestly? Consider grabbing another Corolla if you liked your Corolla. The Toyota price tag pays itself off in longevity and low ongoing cost. They just don’t die and do their job well for a long time.
Honestly? Consider grabbing another Corolla if you liked your Corolla
Agreed. My 2020 corolla has very little of the digital bells and whistles that are increasingly getting in the way of things “just working” in the driving experience.
Still, more than I’d like, but much less than any other vehicle I’ve driven in the last 10 years.
And, as far as I can tell, it doesn’t have any way of “phoning home” to tell the corporate overlords if I’m doing something they don’t approve of.
I can’t quote it offhand, but I know I’ve read an article recently about corporations phoning home and I believe Toyota was on the list. I’ll see if I can dig it up.
That said, I agree about the Toyotas. Even if they DO phone home and we have to deal with that crap, they’re bulletproof and deserve their reputation.
Edit: guess I never ended up reading the whole article, but it was Mozilla. Hopefully this helps: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
Yeah it seems all cars share data now according to that report :(
Just gotta get an older dumb car that’s reliable (like Toyota or Lexus) or maybe you can remove the modem from the car.
That report is based on reading privacy policies, it doesn’t actually assess what cars / brands actually do or are capable of
Agreed. My 2011 Toyota Auris hybrid is still chuntering along with minimal issues. A friend got a new car recently and its electronic horrorshow puts me right off giving up my dumb old car.
This is only tangentially related, hopefully someone else here knows, are the newer fleet vehicles coming out still barebones? It might be a consideration if so
