My parents raised me to always say “yes sir” and “no ma’am”, and I automatically say it to service workers and just about anyone with whom I’m not close that I interact with. I noticed recently that I had misgendered a cashier when saying something like “no thank you, ma’am” based on their appearing AFAB, but on a future visit to the store they had added their pronouns (they) to their name tag. I would feel bad if their interaction with me was something they will remember when feeling down. This particular person has a fairly androgynous haircut/look and wears a store uniform, so there’s no gender clue there.

I am thinking I need to just stop saying “sir” and “ma’am” altogether, but I like the politeness and I don’t know how I would replace it in a gender-neutral way. Is there anything better than just dropping it entirely?

For background I’m a millennial and more than happy to use people’s correct pronouns if I know them!

  • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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    8 months ago

    It would be nice if we could get a consensus gender neutral formal honorific. But it’s pulling teeth to get everyone on board with polite respect in using gender neutral pronouns at all. People be trippin.

    Formal honorifics are important. They’re about giving verbal respect until familiarity builds enough to bypass the barrier of the unknown.

    Yeah, the origins of honorifics were bound into classist malarkey, but they haven’t stayed there. Once we got to the point where folks were ma’aming and sirring everyone, it became something useful. A way of navigating the complex layers of social interaction, and generating a gradual path from stranger to friend.

    Sir and ma’am are equalizers when used broadly. They set everyone respected individual by default. I would love a third, or even more, term/terms to be added to that for our neighbors that don’t fit the binary.

    Good honorifics are the foundation of maintaining good behavior towards everyone

    • SILLY BEAN@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      8 months ago

      rare german w, our honorific form is gender neutral! (kinda its a little more complex, but its easy to use in a gender neutral way) (the rest of our language isn’t though, just the honorifics are)

    • Clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
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      8 months ago

      That would be my ideal outcome. I haven’t seen a neo-pronoun type of thing for this situation, sadly. It’s tough to impose new rules on a language via fiat anyway, so it probably wouldn’t catch on.

    • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      I used to specifically work all-male forensics. The intricacies of social structure asking criminally insane men can be somewhat complex, but sir (and now that I work coed sometimes ma’am) goes a lot farther than you’d think. It also helps to start every shift by walking into the dayroom and saying “good evening gentlemen! How’s everybody doing tonight?”

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      0·
      8 months ago

      I think it’s because a lot of queer folks fall where I do on honorifics. It’s not that they’re outdated. It’s that formality is disrespect with a power difference. I use professional formality as neutral formal. Once I start calling someone sir or ma’am they’re getting “with all due respect [none]” as well, or i acknowledge that I’ve fucked up and they can’t call me out so I use it to elevate them back. So really it serves as the back foot to fall to.

      And like I’d love to see some theory and history of how we wound up like this because I know that culture has shifted this way, but we are some of the first to drop traditional formality. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was dropped due to the familial tone of our community or the anarchic influences on us.

      I do appreciate seeing your input on all of it because it’s always felt stuffy and distancing to me, and while i understand to use it as a form of cultural respect for certain groups, I didn’t really get why some young people may still want it