You are rejecting the purpose, which is to force men to acknowledge the fear the average woman has for the average man. The purpose isn’t to divide, that’s stupid and a strawman.
I am not “fighting with emotion,” I am telling you in no uncertain terms that the average woman distrusts the average man due to systemic power imbalances.
Pretending everyone is just using “misinformation and fearmongering” is reactionary nonsense that should not be taken seriously by anyone trying to fix these issues. Men are working actively against women even without knowingly trying to by supporting a patriarchial system without criticizing it.
You are going one step further, and actively trying to shut down the voice of women.
“NOT ALL MEN!” Screams the men who think themselves decent for simply not assaulting women, rather than doing the bare minimum and listening and supporting women.
Fine don’t blame the things responsible…this isn’t an argument I can win when you’re attacking with emotion and ignoring anything factual.
Men aren’t working against women, the vast majority want the same thing. You are misinformed, because you’re basing your evidence solely on emotion and teaching people they should hate men, rather than work together to fix the issues which time and time again I have explained isn’t men, but systems put in place by things like religion and poor education.
You’re making enemies where there are allies because you will not listen to reason.
But you go on hating and blaming men, see if it solves your issues or if you actually only aid in retaliation and lose more rights.
There are 3.8 billion men on the planet. A tiny % of them (less than 1%) want to harm women. Miniscule in fact, the vast majority want women to have all the rights they have, me included.
You don’t know what the average woman wants any more than I do. I know loads of women none of them afraid of men, some are even married to men. They don’t go about their days in fear you are just telling me they are and I should accept that because that’s how you feel, because you feel it doesn’t make it true. I also know loads of men and none of them have any hatred towards women they are in fact allies.
Yes historically men have had more power and it is still very much the case, we need to work together to change this, denying that change hasn’t or isn’t happening is fear mongering when in fact everyday battles are won in the fight for women’s rights.
Statistically and logically you are wrong, so the only thing you have is emotions, that’s why I am telling you that you are attacking with emotions.
You can’t even acknowledge that I’m on your side, this is the right discussion to be having, you just need to aim your hatred at the right people. The politicians that want to take away rights, the religious fanatics who quote bible verses like women shouldn’t speak unless spoken to, the toxic masculinity that makes fathers teach their sons the wrong life lessons. We need to work together not blame men for something that the majority of men want to fix as much as you do.
Wow, lots of anecdotes, and yet most women are picking the bear. I never said all women fear all men, but that the average woman fears the average man. Pretty huge distinction!
Secondly, there’s a massive difference between simply wanting equal rights, and being willing to tackle highly imbalanced social power structures.
I am not blaming men. I am blaming the partiarchial system, and hoping fellow men can also correctly point the blame at systemic issues, rather than telling women to shut the fuck up and explaining to them what they should be fighting.
You aren’t an ally yet, because you are dedicated to silencing women. Sit back, listen, and then support. Easy as that. Yes, religion and conservativism are also bad, but those are also products of systemic issues. You say we need to look at the cause, yet you’re contributing to it by invalidating the lived experience of women.
Basically, I’m telling you to touch grass and stop contributing to the reasons why the average woman is picking the bear.
I never once tried to silence you, I’m actually enjoying our discussion very much and think it’s a very important one to have. All I’m trying to say is you’re not alone in what you are fighting for and there are many many men on your side statistics back this up. But when you pick the bear you are actively working against the men trying to help. By not acknowledging the majority of men are on your side you are causing division, you are making things worse for yourself by not accepting we are trying to change things for the better for everyone.
Basically telling you to touch grass and stop contributing to the fire that’s taking women’s rights away by blaming the issue on the wrong thing. You are teaching young women they should be afraid of men, when statistics and reality say the opposite is true and we should be all working together for a
common goal.
You are trying to silence me though, telling me I can only sit down and listen to obvious sexism. When what people should do when they experience sexism is speaking up and speak loud.
I am going to restate my thesis, perhaps wording it in an alternative manner may help you: most men do not intentionally side against women. That is why the bear discourse has been so polarizing and shocking for men like yourself. You believe yourself to be supportive of women, but as you aren’t actually listening to the many women picking the bear, you serve to silence them.
When society changes, fragments of past society remain. Just because there are few if any legal limits on women in developed countries does not mean that they hold equal societal power. Few women are CEOs or world leaders.
The path to the liberation of women cannot be done via simply making men and women equal under the law. This ignores the entirety of patriarchial history and results in power remaining in the hands of men.
That is the crux of the issue you are silencing by silencing women. Telling women that they are stupid for fearing men, who hold far more societal power than they do, is in fact sexist of you, even if unintentional. I am not teaching women anything, the Bear Discourse has purely been an opportunity for me to listen to women.
Honestly you are coming across very aggressively, very toxic and seem unwilling to listen to any of the facts. so I’m going to end my part in this discussion, you can live in your fantasy world where change isn’t happening. In my world we’ve had women running the country multiple times. They appear and excel in every career, and it’s very easy to see things are happening, I’ll admit slower than I’d like, but they definitely are. Just the other day women won the right to go topless on beaches in Belgium, another win in the fight against sexism.
I feel you’re just a stubborn argumentative person, so any mention of facts or any calls to reality fall on deaf ears.
What facts have you presented, and why is your response to women telling you they feel unsafe alone around the average man “shut the fuck up, they are on your side, actually” and not “wow, that’s horrible, I wonder why that is?”
No, lol.
You are rejecting the purpose, which is to force men to acknowledge the fear the average woman has for the average man. The purpose isn’t to divide, that’s stupid and a strawman.
I am not “fighting with emotion,” I am telling you in no uncertain terms that the average woman distrusts the average man due to systemic power imbalances.
Pretending everyone is just using “misinformation and fearmongering” is reactionary nonsense that should not be taken seriously by anyone trying to fix these issues. Men are working actively against women even without knowingly trying to by supporting a patriarchial system without criticizing it.
You are going one step further, and actively trying to shut down the voice of women.
“NOT ALL MEN!” Screams the men who think themselves decent for simply not assaulting women, rather than doing the bare minimum and listening and supporting women.
Fine don’t blame the things responsible…this isn’t an argument I can win when you’re attacking with emotion and ignoring anything factual. Men aren’t working against women, the vast majority want the same thing. You are misinformed, because you’re basing your evidence solely on emotion and teaching people they should hate men, rather than work together to fix the issues which time and time again I have explained isn’t men, but systems put in place by things like religion and poor education. You’re making enemies where there are allies because you will not listen to reason. But you go on hating and blaming men, see if it solves your issues or if you actually only aid in retaliation and lose more rights.
Every single one of your points has been nothing but vibes, lol. Please, explain how I have been “arguing emotionally” instead of logically.
There are 3.8 billion men on the planet. A tiny % of them (less than 1%) want to harm women. Miniscule in fact, the vast majority want women to have all the rights they have, me included. You don’t know what the average woman wants any more than I do. I know loads of women none of them afraid of men, some are even married to men. They don’t go about their days in fear you are just telling me they are and I should accept that because that’s how you feel, because you feel it doesn’t make it true. I also know loads of men and none of them have any hatred towards women they are in fact allies. Yes historically men have had more power and it is still very much the case, we need to work together to change this, denying that change hasn’t or isn’t happening is fear mongering when in fact everyday battles are won in the fight for women’s rights. Statistically and logically you are wrong, so the only thing you have is emotions, that’s why I am telling you that you are attacking with emotions.
You can’t even acknowledge that I’m on your side, this is the right discussion to be having, you just need to aim your hatred at the right people. The politicians that want to take away rights, the religious fanatics who quote bible verses like women shouldn’t speak unless spoken to, the toxic masculinity that makes fathers teach their sons the wrong life lessons. We need to work together not blame men for something that the majority of men want to fix as much as you do.
Wow, lots of anecdotes, and yet most women are picking the bear. I never said all women fear all men, but that the average woman fears the average man. Pretty huge distinction!
Secondly, there’s a massive difference between simply wanting equal rights, and being willing to tackle highly imbalanced social power structures.
I am not blaming men. I am blaming the partiarchial system, and hoping fellow men can also correctly point the blame at systemic issues, rather than telling women to shut the fuck up and explaining to them what they should be fighting.
You aren’t an ally yet, because you are dedicated to silencing women. Sit back, listen, and then support. Easy as that. Yes, religion and conservativism are also bad, but those are also products of systemic issues. You say we need to look at the cause, yet you’re contributing to it by invalidating the lived experience of women.
Basically, I’m telling you to touch grass and stop contributing to the reasons why the average woman is picking the bear.
I never once tried to silence you, I’m actually enjoying our discussion very much and think it’s a very important one to have. All I’m trying to say is you’re not alone in what you are fighting for and there are many many men on your side statistics back this up. But when you pick the bear you are actively working against the men trying to help. By not acknowledging the majority of men are on your side you are causing division, you are making things worse for yourself by not accepting we are trying to change things for the better for everyone.
Basically telling you to touch grass and stop contributing to the fire that’s taking women’s rights away by blaming the issue on the wrong thing. You are teaching young women they should be afraid of men, when statistics and reality say the opposite is true and we should be all working together for a common goal.
You are trying to silence me though, telling me I can only sit down and listen to obvious sexism. When what people should do when they experience sexism is speaking up and speak loud.
I am not a woman, by the way.
I am going to restate my thesis, perhaps wording it in an alternative manner may help you: most men do not intentionally side against women. That is why the bear discourse has been so polarizing and shocking for men like yourself. You believe yourself to be supportive of women, but as you aren’t actually listening to the many women picking the bear, you serve to silence them.
When society changes, fragments of past society remain. Just because there are few if any legal limits on women in developed countries does not mean that they hold equal societal power. Few women are CEOs or world leaders.
The path to the liberation of women cannot be done via simply making men and women equal under the law. This ignores the entirety of patriarchial history and results in power remaining in the hands of men.
That is the crux of the issue you are silencing by silencing women. Telling women that they are stupid for fearing men, who hold far more societal power than they do, is in fact sexist of you, even if unintentional. I am not teaching women anything, the Bear Discourse has purely been an opportunity for me to listen to women.
Honestly you are coming across very aggressively, very toxic and seem unwilling to listen to any of the facts. so I’m going to end my part in this discussion, you can live in your fantasy world where change isn’t happening. In my world we’ve had women running the country multiple times. They appear and excel in every career, and it’s very easy to see things are happening, I’ll admit slower than I’d like, but they definitely are. Just the other day women won the right to go topless on beaches in Belgium, another win in the fight against sexism. I feel you’re just a stubborn argumentative person, so any mention of facts or any calls to reality fall on deaf ears.
What facts have you presented, and why is your response to women telling you they feel unsafe alone around the average man “shut the fuck up, they are on your side, actually” and not “wow, that’s horrible, I wonder why that is?”