The person on the left is carrying bags, the one in orange is a delivery driver and a couple of people are wearing backpacks. Aside from car brained, Damaris is also blind.
TIL driving to and from work is “recreational” unless you have a TV or something in the back of your car.
He didn’t make it to the second semester of high school economics where he would have learned that labor is a service.
These morons are insufferable because they don’t believe anything exists outside the frame of the photo. they have worse object permanence to babies
Yeah. That building is probably an office block.
And those guys usually have loading/unloading areas in the back (if not an actual car park).
The right building is a clothing store. There are indeed often back entrances for smaller vans for supplies
Skill issue.
The Dutch absolutely use bikes to carry goods.
I’ve seen people with TVs on their bike. I’ve seen them with multiple crates of beer on the handlebars (kingsnight).
I saw three people on one (regular) bike.
Also these:
You can stack at least 3 crates on the back of the bike if you have a bag carrier, 2 otherwise. Then 1 or 2 on the bar between your legs, and 1 on the steering bar, or 2 if you also have a bag carrier there.
Ebike recommended if they’re full, but it’s way doable when bringing them back to the store.
I’m sure that works well where it’s flat. Try that in a city with tons of hills and you’re gonna have a much harder time.
Ebikes can take a lot of the pain out of that. They’re very powerful now.
And most cities are very flat.
I live in the very non flat south East of the Netherlands. We still do everything on bike. Groceries, mail, like 4 children while carrying groceries and being on the phone.
Yup and if we really NEED to transport big things, sure, we might need a van. But that’s probably a once every once every year thing max.
How do workers carry goods from the ports to the stores?
Did they forget what century we live in?
A truck carrying freight ≠ a person driving home groceries. Groceries that typically fill up a car’s trunk just for 2-3 people; a bicycle isn’t carrying that. You’d need a rickshaw-like cart hooked onto it. They do exist though, for passengers, so making one for personal cargo loads is doable.
I wouldn’t want to do any of that in winter, though. Snow, ice, and sub-zero wind-chill (plus the further cooling effect while moving) are not when anyone should ever be on a bicycle.
Also, driving to a larger grocery store is non-negotiable for us because they’re the ones who stock the lower-demand allergy-safe foods. Guess how much a corn allergy sucks in America, on top of others. While most allergies and medical conditions are rarer than not, they are a huge problem.
Didn’t get me started on commuting - and youn literally can’t remote-work a labor job. Imagine having to make a 30+ minute car commute on a bicycle on top of a 9+ hour day.
So while yes, fuck cars, bicycles are not anywhere close to a magic bullet. Our entire civilization needs a comprehensive bottom-up overhaul that addresses every problem simultaneously, since most of them are interconnected.
Groceries, in particular, are more of an effect than a cause. Lots of people live without cars in New York City, or London, or Paris, or Toronto, or Tokyo, and they manage to eat. The reason you need to buy 7 days worth of food for two people all at once is because you live in a field far away from everything. “Getting Groceries” becomes a special trip, because, while driving, leaving the highway, stopping and parking are inconvenient.
As a pedestrian in a city, I was going to walk past 5 food stores on my way between work and home anyway, and it’s really not problem to walk in and buy only what I ran out of yesterday, or some special item I wanted for tonight’s dinner. It’s simple to shop for 5 or 10 minutes, five times a week, rather than one hour once a week, and never need more than a single bag of groceries at a time. And rather than being inconvenient, it’s actually great because I’m only buying what I need right now, the things I’m going to use as soon as I get home, so it’s very simple.
Allergies could be tricky, yeah. If you’re lucky the local shop, by nature of being smaller and more local, actually knows you and knows you need this stuff and stocks it because they know you’ll buy it from them. But that’s not a guarantee, for sure. That having been said, if the only people driving were people with corn allergies, the roads would be a much safer place!
Person who lives a car-centric life think human experience everywhere is the same.
Alright, I don’t generally agree with you guys in this subreddit since cars man freedom from landlords to me. This person in the pic though? Absolute lunacy! I’m just dying to see the look on their face when someone sets them straight!
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How?
Our housing supply is so shit that people have to sleep in cars.
And where I live, people were having too much fun living in vans, so they even made that difficult.
I’ll get downvoted being in this community, but in extreme climates where it goes down to - 30 Celsius and has up to 230cm of snow a season, bikes don’t work.
Fall Spring summer, sure.
I’d be keen to know your (or others) experience of biking and driving in those conditions because in my experience cars aren’t well suited to those temperatures either. I don’t have direct experience of biking in that low but I know people who do and they swear by it.
Of course you could throw fuel at it and keep your car running all the time to stop it from freezing. 😷
https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/329955-russia-cars-extreme-frosts
Anyway as others have said no one is actually saying cycling is the solution for all extreme use cases that’s a strawman.
I throw studded tires on my bike in about 15 minutes and go about my day as normal. It takes about 30-60 minutes to do the same to my car and I’m sore for a couple days after. Also, unless I’m driving 5+ miles, the car is usually slower or equal in time for the commute. The bike is faster and far easier to maintain. The commute isn’t much different, but I’m forced to ride sidewalks because my city plows into the bike lanes. Maybe if I had a car with heated seats, I’d miss the car.
On the bike, I fall probably once per season, but that’s always the result of doing something reckless like jumping over a small snow bank or riding into large chunks of ice that I should have gone around.
Laughs in Edmonton.
This is another version of the comment people are mocking. ‘Ah, but in this incredibly extreme situation, bikes are inefficient!’ Yeah, I know, mate. I wasn’t planning on biking to the south pole with a fridge on my back, was I? The point is not that bikes are the best solution for every single journey any human has made or will ever make, but that cars aren’t the best solution the vast majority of the time.
Laughs in Edmonton.
Love seeing this, Montréal needs to step up it’s winter cycling game
You haven’t been to Minnesota apparently, bike culture there is strong even in deep winter
They work better than cars do. Not long ago on my bike commute in a blizzard I had to keep getting off to help get stuck cars moving again, then if happily ride off…
And handling the cold is easier when riding than walking to and waiting for trains and buses because you generate your own heat. People ski in those conditions. It’s just a matter of the right clothes and equipment and not being soft as fuck.
Similar experience here. Bike commuted year around for a decade and went through multiple blizzards. Helped more drivers get unstuck than i can count
Frequently did the commute sub-zero. If you have the gear it isn’t that bad. And i never had to worry about my bike not starting.
down to - 30 Celsius and has up to 230cm of snow a season, bikes don’t work.
Cars don’t either.
You’ll get down voted, but mostly for being wrong.
It can’t be -30°c 2m of snow for 350 days a year, right?
That’s what I said?
Also why 350 days?
Because your concern seems to be disproportionately weighted on extreme weather?
Didn’t I day spring fall and summer are ok?
If that isn’t your intention, then i’m sorry, but i’m not the only one getting the same vibe, and i genuinely not sure why you bring out extreme condition where other mode of transport doesn’t work either.
Montrealer here. When roads are unplowed, cars also struggle. When it’s too cold, cars also struggle.
I live at the top of a gentle slope and as soon as it starts snowing, cars are slipping and sliding down the slope. There’s even a famous video of exactly this kind of thing, with cars, buses, police and snow plows just sliding down the slope.
Cars need very well maintained roads to work in winter. Those roads can also be used by bikes. And if you plow bike paths and bike lanes, just like we do for cars, cycling in winter is usually no big deal. Sometimes while cars are slipping down I can observe cyclists being able to climb the same slope. Or they just push the bike up on foot and continue on their way.
I use my bike in winter and can assure you that it is working.
Addendum: I am a simple man. When is starts snowing I just sit by my window and watch cars struggle to go uphill. In fact, I record it.
Also, just to continue on your points. It’s not -30C every day and snow here is usually plowed within a few hours, AND removed within a few days. Extreme weather is extreme, and one should avoid driving in during heavy snowfall anyway. So either you’re on a bike, or in a car that you must dig out of a snow bank, or using public transit, if the weather is extreme, everyone is going to have a less than perfect day.
The only reason bikes don’t work in -30 is because there isn’t infrastructure to support them and if there is it isn’t maintained properly. I was going to link examples, but it seems other people already have.
Tell that to Finland.
Ok, I guess some people are willing to bike in extreme weather.
I’ve never tried it, but I don’t think I’d like to be out in -30 + windchill on a bike instead of in a heated car.
I’m all for better public transit though.
I do 65 minutes in the morning to work, and 80-85 coming home.
I do 65 minutes in the morning to work, and 80-85 coming home
I think you’ll find most !fuckcars members will also be big advocates for zoning reform that enables more people to live closer to their work. Nobody should be living a 65 minute drive from their work unless it’s purely by choice. They shouldn’t even be a 65 minute bike ride away from their workplace.
I know, unless you absolutely need the job and it’s the only one that accepted your offer.
In my case however, the company lied to me; they said at the start I can shift to full remote over time, but 4 months in and they’re saying that I need supervision to work (even though no one helps me with anything all day).
So I got fucked.
To be clear, I am in no way blaming you here. The fact that most people have to live a long way from their workplaces is a result of restrictive zoning laws that mean there aren’t very many homes near the centre of cities (where most jobs are located for practical reasons), and what homes there are tend to be very expensive. Better laws would make it so more people are able to live closer to work if they want to.
No worries, I understood your point.
But isn’t it better to have homes further from the heart of Main cities? I prefer the quiet of living in an area that only has residential housing.
A totally reasonable question, but in summary, the answer is no, it’s not better.
There will always be some people who do prefer to live rurally, that’s true. And they should have that option. But most people prefer the amenities of a city. The problem with how the US, Canada, and Australia do things currently is that the majority of the living area is “suburbia”, which tries to provide the peace of rural living with the amenities of a city. But it ends up doing poorly at both.
It’s particularly bad for people who cannot drive, like children, teenagers, and people with certain disabilities. Car-dependent suburbia is extremely restrictive on them compared to being able to, for example, hop on their bike a ride to their friend’s place, or to soccer practice.
You might say you want “only residential housing”, but isn’t it more convenient if there’s a cafe within walking distance? Or a community pub/tavern you can grab some food at? Isn’t it better to be able to stop off at a grocery store on your bike home from work, or the walk from the train station, than to have to take a dedicated weekly car drive to a large shopping centre 10–15 minutes by car away to do a single large shop (and hope you don’t forget anything on that weekly shop, or you’ll have to make a dedicated trip especially for that one thing!)? Wouldn’t most people be better off if they can walk or cycle conveniently to nearby sports clubs, community centres, etc. in order to partake in their hobbies and leisure activities?
There are also economic reasons behind it. More dense places like I’m describing have enormous economic benefits. People spend more in the local economy when they walk or cycle to shops, rather than driving. Because when driving they’re more likely to go to a big box store on the periphery where the profits go to a large national or multinational chain rather than a local business. Denser living costs a lot less for the government, because the cost of infrastructure like electricity lines, sewerage, and road maintenance are much, much lower than in lower density suburban or rural areas. And it makes the building and operation of public transport networks more feasible and affordable.
It’s also cheaper for the people who live there. Having a shared wall means you lose less heat in winter, reducing your heating cost. Being able to walk or ride most places means you don’t need a car, or maybe your family which would have had 2 cars now only needs 1, which dramatically reduces your transportation cost. (Seriously, an average car costs tens of thousands of dollars per year in petrol, maintenance, and the upfront cost. It’s a huge financial burden.) And, obviously, because of the above paragraph, your personal council tax/rates bill will be lower.
I’m not talking about everyone living in soviet-style concrete blocks, either. The ideal form of development is medium density. 2–3 storey townhouses and duplexes, 3–5 storey comfortable walk-up apartments. With modern building standards these are incredibly comfortable and quiet.
@_sideffect @Zagorath We all agree you got fucked.
But this community thinks you didn’t just get fucked by your employer but by zoning and planning and such too. Better zoning and infrastructure would have you looking at a 10m cycle plus a 15m train ride to the office of the employer that fucked you.
If you can clear the roads for cars you can do the same for bikes.
That’s why cities in such climates also need really good public transit systems.
That’s one of the busiest intersections in Utrecht, especially in the weekend with buses, cyclists, pedestrians and some cars. It’s pretty easy to navigate too
This is one of the busiest intersections in Greater Victoria, British Columbia. Yes, it’s as awful as it looks. It also cuts in half what would have been a really great trail-rail. It’s like they just gave up.
How often does one need to transport a sofa, table, or desk? That’s what delivery trucks are for, which is a legitimate use of that type of transportation.
The drugstore cowboys driving Dodge Rams clogging up the streets aren’t transporting anything more robust than a 12-pack of Mtn Dew and complaining about the price of gas
Oddly enough, the discussion is never on the other side.
“WHY DO YOU NEED BIKE LANES?! NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO RIDE A BIKE! JUST DRIVE!”
The bike in front literally has shopping bags hanging from the handles. Fucking clown take
And also someone sitting on the back of the bike.
Definitely the wrong argument against bikes.
A lot of the best ones just come down to time - 30 mins commuting in traffic vs 70+ cycling. 1-2 grocery trips per week vs 4-6.
Good public transport can balance that out (though less so for shopping).
@HexesofVexes @nehal3m Most people should live where walking to a grocery store is easy. Most advocates want to fix a lot of things, not just 1.
@HexesofVexes @nehal3m Cycling commute times can be pretty compeditive in big cities, driving can have very bad worst case speeds where cycling is very stable.
The pictured example in Melbourne is 0:35 to 1:40 by car and 1:25 by bike. Yes the car will frequently win, but you can leave later to guarantee being in the office by 9. (TOA was set to 8:55am)
(The best and fastest is cycle to local station and catch the train)
And here I thought roads were for people… I’m so silly
Don’t remember where I heard it first, but I always love to hear it.
“Whenever someone brings up bikes, suddenly everyone needs to move their refrigerator 100 miles in the rain”
The solution? Rental vans…
It’s like people think they need mega trucks for the time once a year or less that they have to move a couch.
“But what about when I have to haul wood for my yearly porch renovation?”
“Rent a fucking truck!”
or hitch a trailer…
Have it delivered by the people selling you the wood.
“That’s so expensive!”, having big goods delivered costs a fraction of maintaining your own car…
In this vein, I saw a comment on Lemmy that speaks to this. I’m paraphrasing but it really woke me up. The person said that Americans choose on edge cases and not standard use case. I realized I felt that way about ICE cars vs EV and I am a cyclist. It is amazing how we can have blinders on.
It’s weird because all, and i mean ALL, furniture and electronic shop in my country will do delivery for you, most even do it for FREE.
Then there’s 3rd party delivery service via an app.
I’m gonna steal that.
You’re living up to your name, lol 😉
Yea, car congestion isn’t about industrial transport, it’s about personal transport. All of the people commuting to/from work etc in single person occupied tanks.
Looks at literally the front bike in the picture…
