As long as the pedo shit is blocked i dont see why u would want to defederate instead of letting each user block what they want. We need a user level federated blocklist.
Anything illegal posted on a remote server will bring legal trouble to you as a server admin the moment it federates onto your instance. Therefore I completely understand them defederating from instances with a high risk of illegal activity.
Selective federation is a benefit. It’s by design. It’s helpful in precisely these circumstances. And as it’s open source, the users of the service can use the feature how they want. It’s entirely reasonable that instance admins use the feature as intended to protect against regional legal liability. What you’re doing is like using a canoe, and then complaining that there’s too much water in these here parts.
At least on Lemmy, defederating is also a way of banning all the instance’s users from your communities. If you’re constantly banning one instance’s users and their admins seem fine with it, there’s really no other way.
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t block the users; I blocked the NSFW Lemmy, whatever the big one is, because of how much porn would be on the All feed otherwise. I was surprised to see a post or comment from someone whose account was on that instance a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t anything I didn’t want to see so overall I was glad the users are still able to participate elsewhere if that’s what they want.
Sort of. It does block the users, but only on your specific instance. If you’re interacting with a post on another instance and that instance is federated with them, you’ll still see them on that third instance.
Defederating basically takes the three instances from a closed triangle ◺ (where all users can see and post on all three instances) to an open triangle ∟ (where your instance and the defederated instance are blocked from each other, but the third instance can still see and interact with both.)
Because in order to block content, the user first has to see it. If I were an instance admin, I wouldn’t force my users to see any amount of N words and homophobic slurs, not even the once it takes to block it.
With a blocklist, the user is putting their trust in an unnamed group of people with essentially no accountability. With defederation, the user puts their trust in admins they can talk to, with a public modlog to explain every decision. You’re proposing to take the same amount of control away from users, but with less accountability.
They are both essentially the same thing except u decided to call one group of unnamed people Admins and suddenly they have responsibility and authority.
The difference, and the best part of the fediverse imho, is that if you’re not happy with someone elses rules you can become your own admin and set your own rules. The more we centralize power the further we go against that idea.
If you want to see far-right content and spam, join a far-right server or run your own, rather than trying to shame server owners into doing what you want.
Admins are entitled to decide what they platform and what they don’t. On top of that, the user experience of “just block 100 servers of Nazis and incels to get to the content you want to see” is complete dogshit.
This “it should all be user level” is just apologist bullshit.
It’s funny seeing how being able to see and discuss these decisions being the advantage of lemmy and admins and then seeing someone talking about defederation policies being “shaming” lmao. A bit dramatic
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff?
I mean, it’s a user complaining about defederation from known nazi instances. It gives off some big “free speech absolutist (as long as the free speech is hate speech)” vibes.
User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
That system already exists. You can spin up your own instance in like 15 minutes, and have access to the entire unfiltered fediverse. But nobody wants to do that, because nobody actually wants to see the unfiltered fediverse. That shit is basically rawdogging the internet, because it’s full of extremists and pedophiles.
There is only one side who benefits from the “everything unfiltered by default, the user has to individually wade through mountains of slurs, hate, doxxing, and child porn to manually block all of them” option. And it isn’t the user. The only side that benefits is the side that now gets to peddle their BS to a wider audience.
If you genuinely want the fediverse to improve and grow, advocating for unfiltering isn’t the way. That shit will scare off any curious new users faster than any kind of reasonable filtering would. Imagine you make a new account, and your first interactions are blocking a thousand individual instances just so you don’t end up on a federal watch list.
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff
His “defederation bad (except pedos)” isn’t exactly wet with support for blocking instances for spam and extremism.
User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
That system exists. It’s the “run your own server” that I explicitly mentioned. But let’s be honest, he doesn’t want that system (which again, he already has) for himself, he wants it for everyone else.
It’s the same bullshit that “free speech absolutists” push in every single thread about defederation – admins should be hands off and users should dig through through slurs, racism, homophobia looking for content worth engaging with.
It benefits exactly one group of people but apparently doesn’t set off your “bad-faith” radar.
Looked at the list and did a bit of searching as well as checking the reasons they were defederated. Looks like the top one is basically a trolling group akin to GNAA or some of the proto 4chan or SomethingAwful shit for those who remember back that far.
I can understand why overt trolling and possibly illegal content would be defederated.
That said I would like to see more diverse opinions and sources on my Lemmy feed though. There has to be a base somewhere that isn’t literal nazis but isn’t open socialists either.
That said I would like to see more diverse opinions and sources on my Lemmy feed though. There has to be a base somewhere that isn’t literal nazis but isn’t open socialists either.
Please, this. Lemmy is boring as all hell. 95%+ of users have the same opinions. It’s a giant echo chamber.
As long as the pedo shit is blocked i dont see why u would want to defederate instead of letting each user block what they want. We need a user level federated blocklist.
Anything illegal posted on a remote server will bring legal trouble to you as a server admin the moment it federates onto your instance. Therefore I completely understand them defederating from instances with a high risk of illegal activity.
deleted by creator
What…?
Selective federation is a benefit. It’s by design. It’s helpful in precisely these circumstances. And as it’s open source, the users of the service can use the feature how they want. It’s entirely reasonable that instance admins use the feature as intended to protect against regional legal liability. What you’re doing is like using a canoe, and then complaining that there’s too much water in these here parts.
Right, brainfart, sorry.
At least on Lemmy, defederating is also a way of banning all the instance’s users from your communities. If you’re constantly banning one instance’s users and their admins seem fine with it, there’s really no other way.
I wish I, an individual account, could defederate from instances, like some way to block all those instances’ users.
the lemmy devs added per user instance blocks a while ago. Check your settings page
IIRC that only blocks posts though, not comments :/
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t block the users; I blocked the NSFW Lemmy, whatever the big one is, because of how much porn would be on the All feed otherwise. I was surprised to see a post or comment from someone whose account was on that instance a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t anything I didn’t want to see so overall I was glad the users are still able to participate elsewhere if that’s what they want.
Sort of. It does block the users, but only on your specific instance. If you’re interacting with a post on another instance and that instance is federated with them, you’ll still see them on that third instance.
Defederating basically takes the three instances from a closed triangle ◺ (where all users can see and post on all three instances) to an open triangle ∟ (where your instance and the defederated instance are blocked from each other, but the third instance can still see and interact with both.)
Very interesting, thank you for the explanation.
Edit: is that just for defederation or also when I block an instance on my account?
That’s only for defederating. Blocking is local, and basically just hides the instance from your feed.
I don’t think that blocks the users, just the posts? Or does it block users also?
Because in order to block content, the user first has to see it. If I were an instance admin, I wouldn’t force my users to see any amount of N words and homophobic slurs, not even the once it takes to block it.
Hence tge need for a federated blocklist.
With a blocklist, the user is putting their trust in an unnamed group of people with essentially no accountability. With defederation, the user puts their trust in admins they can talk to, with a public modlog to explain every decision. You’re proposing to take the same amount of control away from users, but with less accountability.
They are both essentially the same thing except u decided to call one group of unnamed people Admins and suddenly they have responsibility and authority.
The difference, and the best part of the fediverse imho, is that if you’re not happy with someone elses rules you can become your own admin and set your own rules. The more we centralize power the further we go against that idea.
You can have the federated blocklist people named, decisions for adding to list public and explained. That way it would be the same as with admins
All that work just to make it the same as what we already have
I don’t think you got the idea of a federated blocklist the other person was talking about
Nah
If you want to see far-right content and spam, join a far-right server or run your own, rather than trying to shame server owners into doing what you want.
Admins are entitled to decide what they platform and what they don’t. On top of that, the user experience of “just block 100 servers of Nazis and incels to get to the content you want to see” is complete dogshit.
This “it should all be user level” is just apologist bullshit.
It’s funny seeing how being able to see and discuss these decisions being the advantage of lemmy and admins and then seeing someone talking about defederation policies being “shaming” lmao. A bit dramatic
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff? User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
Fuck off with this aggressive bad-faith shit.
I mean, it’s a user complaining about defederation from known nazi instances. It gives off some big “free speech absolutist (as long as the free speech is hate speech)” vibes.
That system already exists. You can spin up your own instance in like 15 minutes, and have access to the entire unfiltered fediverse. But nobody wants to do that, because nobody actually wants to see the unfiltered fediverse. That shit is basically rawdogging the internet, because it’s full of extremists and pedophiles.
There is only one side who benefits from the “everything unfiltered by default, the user has to individually wade through mountains of slurs, hate, doxxing, and child porn to manually block all of them” option. And it isn’t the user. The only side that benefits is the side that now gets to peddle their BS to a wider audience.
If you genuinely want the fediverse to improve and grow, advocating for unfiltering isn’t the way. That shit will scare off any curious new users faster than any kind of reasonable filtering would. Imagine you make a new account, and your first interactions are blocking a thousand individual instances just so you don’t end up on a federal watch list.
His “defederation bad (except pedos)” isn’t exactly wet with support for blocking instances for spam and extremism.
That system exists. It’s the “run your own server” that I explicitly mentioned. But let’s be honest, he doesn’t want that system (which again, he already has) for himself, he wants it for everyone else.
It’s the same bullshit that “free speech absolutists” push in every single thread about defederation – admins should be hands off and users should dig through through slurs, racism, homophobia looking for content worth engaging with.
It benefits exactly one group of people but apparently doesn’t set off your “bad-faith” radar.
Run your own instance then
That would be a seriously cool route to take
Looked at the list and did a bit of searching as well as checking the reasons they were defederated. Looks like the top one is basically a trolling group akin to GNAA or some of the proto 4chan or SomethingAwful shit for those who remember back that far.
I can understand why overt trolling and possibly illegal content would be defederated.
That said I would like to see more diverse opinions and sources on my Lemmy feed though. There has to be a base somewhere that isn’t literal nazis but isn’t open socialists either.
Please, this. Lemmy is boring as all hell. 95%+ of users have the same opinions. It’s a giant echo chamber.
You’re free to sub to whatever instances you want. You seem to be complaining about your own inaction.
I do sub to whatever instances I want. And sometimes I go to All. It’s called an observation. It’s ok when people say things you disagree with.
I didn’t disagree with anything.
I disagree.