That’s not true. Imagine your friend is nonbinary. If you only believe in men and women, you won’t respect them, and you’ll perceive them as male or female. But if you believe in nonbinary people, you can choose to see them as their preferred gender. You want to call that a hallucination? I call it being a good person.
What’s wrong with my perception of nonbinary people? They do exist, and otherkin do, too.
The true debate behind “X do not exist” is not whether the people seeing themselves in this light exist (they obviously do), but whether we should take self-assessment as a valid criteria for defining those terms, or we should rely on another arbitrary framework.
So, essentially, it’s not a debate on existence of such people per se, but on how we should treat them. The rest is a set of semantic tricks to convince people of a certain position.
Objectively, there are people who consider themselves nonbinary/otherkin. Rest is politics.
Personally, I do not think treating it like an illness helps anyone or is in any way constructive, and am happy to treat people the way they want to be treated.
Huh, I didn’t expect you to accept otherkin. A realist who accepts otherkin, weird! You learn something new every day!
Alright, suppose my friend Saphira here is dragonkin. Now I will make my views on Saphira clear so that any counterargument of yours need not use a strawman. I believe species is a social construct, and Saphira deserves the right to interpret that construct’s relation to herself as she pleases. She has a draconic body on the astral plane, and we need to destroy consensus reality so that other people will perceive her dragon body instead of this fake and bad human body other people have forced onto her.
Now I wanna know what you think, realist. Do you believe that Saphira’s dragon body, her wings, and her fire breath are objectively real, and that a kinphobe who looks at her and sees a human is seeing something objectively false?
No, such person is seeing an objective reality that Saphira, in fact, does have a human body, but perceives herself as a dragon.
However, regardless of whether there is a draconic body on some astral plane or if it’s her mind doing weird things, it makes no sense to get hostile about it.
She wants to be seen as an astral dragon? Alright, I can treat her as one. If I’ll ever see her draconic visage, I’ll confront a reality that she is, in fact, a dragon, but for now it’s enough for me that she has a draconic identity, which is what actually matters in communication.
Oh, so you’re of the “I respect your identity on an intellectual level, but I refuse to put in the effort to perceive you as you are” kind of “”“ally”“”. AKA putting in no effort.
Why wouldn’t you actually try and do a nice thing for someone? Is it laziness, or stubborn pride?
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.
As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that’s a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves “male, female, cis-, trans-”. And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.
Delusion is when a mental illness controls your reality. We want you to control your reality, not an illness and not society.
The only ways you can “control” your reality is either physically or by hallucinating.
That you call your delusions a “soul” is up to you, but don’t try to rope others into your mental problems.
That’s not true. Imagine your friend is nonbinary. If you only believe in men and women, you won’t respect them, and you’ll perceive them as male or female. But if you believe in nonbinary people, you can choose to see them as their preferred gender. You want to call that a hallucination? I call it being a good person.
If my friend is nonbinary, I’m confronted with a reality that they very much exist, and it becomes ignorance to think in terms of binary gender.
From that point onwards, not believing in nonbinary people’s existence is going against the objective reality, which is and always was singular.
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What’s wrong with my perception of nonbinary people? They do exist, and otherkin do, too.
The true debate behind “X do not exist” is not whether the people seeing themselves in this light exist (they obviously do), but whether we should take self-assessment as a valid criteria for defining those terms, or we should rely on another arbitrary framework.
So, essentially, it’s not a debate on existence of such people per se, but on how we should treat them. The rest is a set of semantic tricks to convince people of a certain position.
Objectively, there are people who consider themselves nonbinary/otherkin. Rest is politics.
Personally, I do not think treating it like an illness helps anyone or is in any way constructive, and am happy to treat people the way they want to be treated.
Huh, I didn’t expect you to accept otherkin. A realist who accepts otherkin, weird! You learn something new every day!
Alright, suppose my friend Saphira here is dragonkin. Now I will make my views on Saphira clear so that any counterargument of yours need not use a strawman. I believe species is a social construct, and Saphira deserves the right to interpret that construct’s relation to herself as she pleases. She has a draconic body on the astral plane, and we need to destroy consensus reality so that other people will perceive her dragon body instead of this fake and bad human body other people have forced onto her.
Now I wanna know what you think, realist. Do you believe that Saphira’s dragon body, her wings, and her fire breath are objectively real, and that a kinphobe who looks at her and sees a human is seeing something objectively false?
No, such person is seeing an objective reality that Saphira, in fact, does have a human body, but perceives herself as a dragon.
However, regardless of whether there is a draconic body on some astral plane or if it’s her mind doing weird things, it makes no sense to get hostile about it.
She wants to be seen as an astral dragon? Alright, I can treat her as one. If I’ll ever see her draconic visage, I’ll confront a reality that she is, in fact, a dragon, but for now it’s enough for me that she has a draconic identity, which is what actually matters in communication.
Oh, so you’re of the “I respect your identity on an intellectual level, but I refuse to put in the effort to perceive you as you are” kind of “”“ally”“”. AKA putting in no effort.
Why wouldn’t you actually try and do a nice thing for someone? Is it laziness, or stubborn pride?
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
First, that wasn’t me.
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.
As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that’s a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves “male, female, cis-, trans-”. And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.
What makes it so the picture has no reality as a rabbit or a duck, but a human being has an objective gender?
Those words definitely are strung together in a way that creates a sentence