i wouldn’t normally be concerned since any company releasing a VR product with this price tag is obviously going to fail… but it’s apple and somehow through exquisite branding and sleek design they have managed to create something that resonated with “tech reviewers” and rich folk who can afford it.
what’s really concerning is that it’s not marketed as a new VR headset, it’s marketed by apple and these “tech reviewers” as the new iphone, something you take with you everywhere and do your daily tasks in, consume content in etc…
and it’s dystopian. imagine you are watching youtube on this thing and when an ad shows up, you can’t look away, even if you try to they can track your eye movement and just move the window, you can’t mute it, you certainly cannot install adblock on it, you are forced to watch the ad until it satisfies apple or you just give up and take out the headset.
this is why i think all these tech giants (google meta apple etc) were/are interested in the “metaverse”. it holds both your vision and your hearing hostage, you cannot do anything else when using it but to just use the thing. a 100% efficiency attention machine, completely blocking you from the outside world.
i’m not concerned about this iteration as much as people are not hyped about this iteration. just like how people are hyped about the next apple vision, i’m more worried about the next iterations with somewhat lower price tag and better software availability. i hope it flops and i know it probably won’t achieve any sort of mainstream adoption even if it’s deemed a success because it probably can’t get less bulky and look less dorky, but the possibility is still worrying. what are your thoughts?
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If anything weird happens some hacker man would probably put up a tutorial on how to disable the eye tracker.
You could probably just put tape over it, but it wouldn’t be great as you control the entire OS with the eye trackers.
It’s really easy to avoid if you don’t use them.
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I mentioned this in another Apple Vision thread, but that was one of the proposed use cases for Steve Mann’s original EyeTap device.
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I’d love to be able to set up a laptop and have much more screen real estate by putting on a headset. The ability to watch something like game of thrones on an airplane without the 6 year old behind me seeing shit would also be nice.
The biggest downside of the apple headset is that it’s apple and their stupid ecosystem.
Oh, man, I would love if I could walk around my town and every billboard and annoying flashy sign were replaced with a bit of smart auto-fill or a color-matched segment of a wallpaper image from my wallpapers folder.
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giant companies try stupid marketing techniques like this all the time. when they’re moronic and nobody can afford them, they fail.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single normal tech reviewer that didn’t talk about serious drawbacks to the platform. the only people who are sucking apple’s dick are those frou-frou amalgamated tech click harvesters that always suck the big corporations’ dicks. like the Verge
I just don’t understand how Apple, a company known for their sleek, elegant design aesthetics above all else, put their name on something that looks so dorky
I think how the headset looks only somewhat matters…
Apple has generated an image of being “the innovator” in technology. There was “no smartphone” until the iPhone came around (even though that statement is not completely accurate). Their computers are “superior” (even though that statement isn’t necessarily accurate either). Still, the point is that the masses feel that Apple is a technologically innovative company and they still want to own some Apple technology rather than dealing with anything else.
In some realms, this is arguably working. The newer generations (today’s school children) see iPhones as far superior than Android (statement accuracy not relevant) and that anyone not having an iPhone as something being too poor to own the superior phone. Apple wants to keep that brand identity - of being superior technology.
Things like VR put a bit of a damper on that vision. If VR is the “latest and greatest thing” then why does “the owners of Facebook” have their own VR technology while Apple has nothing similar? There is a feeling that Apple introduces products when they are finally ready for the masses… but there is also a growing feeling that Apple is just falling behind and can no longer be innovative. The lack of innovation feelings is something that needs to be removed.
So we have the Apple VR headset. Does it look good? Well, it looks innovative in advertising. Is it for you? No. They would prefer that you don’t use the headset but instead that you “have feelings of technology superiority” when thinking of Apple products. Actually using the headset could harm those feelings. So they make sure to actually release something VR that only people with a ton of money could actually use so that those people can brag about having the latest innovative thing (while also not mentioning any issues with the device). Those people help deliver the actual product…
The actual product is the “innovative feelings”. So, to conclude the point, I feel that something that looks “so dorky” is sort of the point here.
I’ll be honest I think their watch and AirPods both look kinda dumb, but they seem to be quite popular. And I distinctly remember that when both came out people were taking shots at how they looked, myself included.
Pretty simply, the perception that Apple has around design makes anything they develop fashionable by default.
any company releasing a VR product with this price tag is obviously going to fail…
Varjo is doing very well and offers probably the best VR sets. Prices start at around 3000€
And IIRC those are all PCVR sets and not standalone.
At the risk of facts getting in the way:
- You can install ad blockers
- Apps are not able to do that
I think tech reviewers are really naive for thinking that Apple Vision Pro is the future of computing just because it was made by Apple. Nobody wants to use their computer or watch movies in VR, except for in niche situations. My prediction is that users will quickly realize that they don’t actually have any use for the Apple Vision Pro, and the product line will be discontinued.
I think VRChat is a pretty good counterargument to “nobody wants to watch movies in VR”. I myself don’t use VR or VRChat, but according to friends that do worlds with films are extremely popular. Maybe you think that’s a niche situation, but nobody I’ve known that’s tried it (more than a few people) has disliked it and all of them could just as easily watched it on a monitor. There are already thousands of people who sleep in VRChat, talk in VRChat, and play in VRChat. I actually know a really surprising amount of people that will sleep in virtual spaces, whether that be VRChat or just being in a Discord call.
I actually know a really surprising amount of people that will sleep in virtual spaces, whether that be VRChat or just being in a Discord call.
But why though
Let’s bookmark your prediction and come back in 5 years when Apple has used the data they gathered from this headset to make a proper pair of AR glasses. Absolute shit take right along side all the people who said iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch would fail.
I heard simular things about the Apple Watch.
I think augmented reality will be the future. Once someone gets it, they will dominate the market.
It’s a pity because in theory a AR/VR headset without any predatory practices would be a really fun gadget to have, some of things it does is impressive and well polished considering it’s the first apple product of it’s kind, but no way does any feature it has right now make the steep price worth it. Unfortunately it’s apple so we know how its going to pan out and people will buy it. A few iterations from now I can see the price going down with more apps and greater functionality but it will become increasingly more predatory. As you’ve said, unskippable ads but also the fact that they’ll basically have a full scan of your face and surroundings. God knows what kind of sinister shit they can do with all that data. It’s already quite fucked up that you’ll see ads and autocompleted search terms on your phone which clearly indicate that your conversations are being listened to and it feels we’ve all just accepted that and are doing nothing about it.
Some people call VR dystopian, but it’s got great potential too.
During COVID while I was living alone and we were under lockdown…
I used a Quest to watch movies in a virtual theater with a bunch of people from around the world. I remember being in a theater watching an absolutely ridiculous Nicolas Cage movie laughing my ass off with a bunch of dudes from Australia. Another time I watched a cricket game with some people who explained the rules to me and kinda gave me some play by play on what was happening.
I’ve also attended a few support group meetings in VR for coping with loss that had quite a lot of attendants. The meeting was run by a licensed group therapist and we took turns sharing and then reflecting on each others stories. It was frankly amazing.
I also played mini golf with friends of mine as well as had a couple meetings over a round of mini golf with the other guy on my design team during lockdown. Honestly the best virtual meetings I ever had.
All of the above were very social and very positive experience. I didn’t feel far away from people, I felt connected to them.
Same way a smartphone can be a useful tool that enhances your life or a screen you stare at for hours consuming bullshit TikTok videos. You’re in control of what you make of it. You can also stick to a dumb phone and not participate at all.
Not to take away from your experience because I’m sure it was genuinely wonderful, but all I can picture for that support group is a bunch of absurd VRchat avatars sitting in a circle for a therapy session.
How many of them have fursonas?
There were no insane avatars, everyone looked pretty normal. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ve never used those. How does it work, you see a picture of the people or is it real video of them?
This was in Altspace VR which unfortunately got axed by Microsoft IIRC, but on there you kinda looked like a less shitty version of one of those Nintendo avatars customized however you wanted.
The craziest anybody looked on there would be to have like rainbow or blue hair or something along those lines. It was pretty tame compared to like the furry anime cat sex doll looking things some people run around in VR Chat with. It also wasn’t overrun with screaming children which I think is VR Chat’s biggest overall problem.
Anyway, that support group thing I think has since moved to another platform, I forget which.
There is nothing wrong with 10 Ugandan Knuckles who just need to find closure
I have so much to say about this, I hardly know where to start. A few brief points:
Yes, this product direction is problematic in many many ways. There is a reason why science fiction has been speculating about these types of devices for decades and nearly always portraying the technology as an escape mechanism for a horrifying dystopian reality.
We’ve experienced several really big technology revolutions in just a few decades (pc, internet, social, mobile). All have brought wonderful improvements to life, but all have had profound, and unanticipated side effects. In all instances, we would have benefited as a society by interrogating consequences more completely at the beginning, rather than just letting market forces alone to drive them into mass adoption.
The good news is that none of this is really new. This appears to be a pretty good implementation of a UI model that consumers have been largely rejecting for over 30 years. There are absolutely very useful, very good uses for these UIs, but these are niche markets overall all.
In many ways, XR (a catch all term for both VR and AR) is a retro futuristic idea. This is a vision of the future as seen 40 years ago. Really innovative human computer interfacing doesn’t look like this anymore. Actually useful innovation involves things like agents, voice ui’s and so on (think Jarvis from the MCU).
The question is, can Apple’s marketing prowess and effectively infinite budget push a largely unpleasant, unneeded, and expensive product into mass adoption? I am hopeful that they can’t. I am hopeful that reality isn’t sci-fi dystopian enough to create a wide market for this. If they can, it may say more about how dystopian our real reality has become. That’s the really worrisome part to me.
Excuse me but ‘voice UI’ is a hell of a lot more retro futuristic than XR. That shit has been around in sci-fi for 60+ years easy and in real life for decades at this point and is still absolutely horrible to use for just about anything more complex than setting a timer and adding things to a list.
Let me clarify. My complaint about the retro-futuristic nature of XR is not the age of the idea. The problem is that this approach has been speculated about and productized in various ways for decades. Through all of that, it has never amounted to more than niche applications, has been rejected by wider markets repeatedly, and failed to inspire much more imagined usefulness beyond being an escape vehicle from some kind of real-world hellscape. Despite all of that, entities like apple insist on trying again, and again, and again. I am convinced that Tim Cook sees this as the future because of the residue of his childhood musing about the future. I know for a fact that Zuckerberg is motivated by exactly that.
Now let’s compare that to audio UIs. These have also been around for a long time. In that time, they have only become more pervasive, useful and inspirational (see again my reference to Jarvis). Additionally, I’m not just talking about the audio part of that interface. I’m talking about the agents that can act independently, and spontaneously to help humans do what the want to do. We are making tremendous progress on that front, but Apple is (in terms of this product line) mired in the past.
If the Apple Vision Pro is going to replace smartphones in the way Smartphones replaced flip phones, we wouldn’t have flip phones anymore.
Spoiler alert: we still have flip phones.
Lots of them, actually, albeit not “dumb” ones anymore… they all run either Android or KaiOS, and come with all the commensurate risks of having all your usage stats beamed up to the mothership for third-party sales and monetization.
Hell, we now have a rotary cell phone - the rotary un-smartphone - which is enjoying decent popularity and mental rent-free status among lots of techy people, despite being nothing more than a 1970s rotary dialler with an ePaper display for incoming text messages. And a few buttons for hard-set quick-dial options. I would love one myself if it wasn’t so expensive compared to a smartphone.
I will continue not using it. I was interested in Oculus until they sold to FB and then I nope’d right out of that. I really did think VR was neat, but various things kept me from pulling the trigger. If it becomes the only way to use chunks of the internet, I just won’t use them; I grew up still in the analog world (though we did have BBS and very early dial-up in the '80s), and I could go back to it. I’d honestly miss educational content more than anything else, but I can get books. In my lifetime, that strategy would probably still work fine.
