This specific talk was about defining shared common interfaces so these different groups could work together and the guy who actually talked him into stepping down essentially said “I’m gonna keep writing C and if that breaks your rust stuff that’s not my problem”. This isn’t about convincing the c devs to write rust it’s about convincing them to work together when some of them seem to have made up their mind to sabotage rust support (either through indifference or willful interface regressions). Personally I’m more ashamed what this points to for someone new wanting to come in contribute to Linux.
Ah, but I still agree with the C devs, it creates unnecessary headaches for them. Also, old habits die hard.
I view it as the same way ZFS is supported: Linus and Greg KH are like “you can maintain it, but we don’t give a shit about it, and if what we do breaks ZFS support, well too bad.”
The reverse is also true. Any dev wanting to contribute to Linux in rust which linus himself allowed (despite his silence on this matter) are just going to have to deal with constant headache trying to maintain compatibility with the C interfaces which the devs keep breaking. Either they should’ve never allowed rust in the kernel or they should force devs to at least act in good faith and collaborate (and any that refuse to, well they should be ousted because they can’t behave responsibly). This entire situation is so toxic and I see that as a failure in leadership. That zfs comment is also a little toxic but I don’t think it’s a direct quote. It also doesn’t seem like a fair comparison because from what I can tell zfs isn’t even part of the kernel code base and due to legal reasons cannot be. While it would be great for the kernel not to break it, it is, for all intents and purposes an external project. This rust debacle is different because it’s rust kernel devs and c kernel devs both operating in the same project and trying to find some kind of alignment. To me it seems like there’s enough of an acknowledgment of the value of memory safety that rust support was considered but there’s no authority figure actually supporting it or defending the devs that were invited to actually contribute in it. What a mess.
I think all the Rust devs should remove their code and leave. And when in the future the Linux devs change their tune and ask for their help, they should refuse.
This specific talk was about defining shared common interfaces so these different groups could work together and the guy who actually talked him into stepping down essentially said “I’m gonna keep writing C and if that breaks your rust stuff that’s not my problem”. This isn’t about convincing the c devs to write rust it’s about convincing them to work together when some of them seem to have made up their mind to sabotage rust support (either through indifference or willful interface regressions). Personally I’m more ashamed what this points to for someone new wanting to come in contribute to Linux.
Ah, but I still agree with the C devs, it creates unnecessary headaches for them. Also, old habits die hard.
I view it as the same way ZFS is supported: Linus and Greg KH are like “you can maintain it, but we don’t give a shit about it, and if what we do breaks ZFS support, well too bad.”
The reverse is also true. Any dev wanting to contribute to Linux in rust which linus himself allowed (despite his silence on this matter) are just going to have to deal with constant headache trying to maintain compatibility with the C interfaces which the devs keep breaking. Either they should’ve never allowed rust in the kernel or they should force devs to at least act in good faith and collaborate (and any that refuse to, well they should be ousted because they can’t behave responsibly). This entire situation is so toxic and I see that as a failure in leadership. That zfs comment is also a little toxic but I don’t think it’s a direct quote. It also doesn’t seem like a fair comparison because from what I can tell zfs isn’t even part of the kernel code base and due to legal reasons cannot be. While it would be great for the kernel not to break it, it is, for all intents and purposes an external project. This rust debacle is different because it’s rust kernel devs and c kernel devs both operating in the same project and trying to find some kind of alignment. To me it seems like there’s enough of an acknowledgment of the value of memory safety that rust support was considered but there’s no authority figure actually supporting it or defending the devs that were invited to actually contribute in it. What a mess.
I think all the Rust devs should remove their code and leave. And when in the future the Linux devs change their tune and ask for their help, they should refuse.
Just because some deva are assholes you gonna sabotage the work of the others 10 thousands?
I get the sentiment but that is in no fashion a way to move forward.
Well, when I’m not wanted I tend to burn bridges.