That is highly depending on the type of Museum.
Many Videogame and Computer Museums (at least in Germany) are showing the real Hardware running, some are even allowing the visitors to use and play at the old machines.
And yes, they are often very used to repairing the hardware too.
I would expect from Nintendo that they would show and use real hardware in their museum, and not some emulators. Because I can see the games on an emulator at home (for example using my Switch Online or my SNES Classic), I don’t need a museum for that experience.
I know to be a certified museum in the US, you must work to preserve your articles in perpetuity, meaning anything that could be detrimental to the article is discouraged if not totally disallowed.
They’re fucking Nintendo. They made the consoles they’re showing off in their museum. They absolutely have the ability to supply that museum with equipment and maintain it in perpetuity, because they fucking invented it
That’s not the point of it though. Not about whether you could fix or maintain it when operating it, it’s about not operating it if presents a notable risk of failure. The Smithsonian doesn’t start grinding cornmeal in a bowl from the Mississippians. The Connecticut Museum doesn’t take it’s colt rifles out the range for target practice. These organizations would use a replica to demonstrate what it was like, as opposed to risking damaging an original article.
Thats also not even necessary true either. While they may have invented there various consoles, at some point it will be nearly impossible to acquire replacement parts. They don’t manufacture the ICs or mainboards or the various discreet components. So if there’s no old stock, how would they “fix” a broken N64 (or later) console? It might be theoretically possible to fab a NEC VR4300 to replace a dead one, but probably cost hundreds of thousands, and it wouldn’t be broken anyway if you hadn’t left if running 16 hours a day so some sweaty tourists could play on real hardware.
And why would they? It would cost more, be more work, and have less reliable results than using a completely replacable computer running an emulator. The entire consumer facing side of the equation is worse if they run the games on the actual hardware, as long as the consumer doesn’t see it, which is really down to how they design the exhibit.
Do you think the public is understanding enough to accept that “The NES is really old and it broke so you can’t play super mario bros today”, when it’s the only day you are gonna be there? Temper tantrum, bad reviews, loss of face. From what I understand, Japan actually cares about all that, so Nintendo probably does as well.
They could replace all the parts in a SNES or NES with components indefinitely, because inside are either off the shelf components or specifically made components made after schematics from Nintendo. So even if nobody makes such parts anymore at the moment there is nothing (but time and money) that would stop Nintendo to order new parts based on their schematics.
Most issues with old consoles can even be fixed by hobbyists and if they can’t that’s because they don’t have access to the needed information to create new versions of the tailor made components.
So there should be no issue for Nintendo to supply their museum with replicas forever.
Yes it would cost way more money then using Emulators, but it would be way more appropriate for their own museum.
But no they have chosen the lazy route.
Oh no, poor Nintendo, how could they possibly afford a custom IC fab? They only have more money than God.
The way I see it, they have two choices. Make the investment to supply their museum with original hardware, or be ok with emulation. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too, and that’s shitty.
That would just be wasteful, and wouldn’t really be the same thing? Analogue already makes N64 FPGAs make things that are almost N64s, and Nintendo doesn’t seem to care.
Your forgetting that Nintendo emulates there own games all the time, literally since the GameCube.
There argument has never been about what they can do, it’s about what you can do. Now they are wrong under US law, but it’s not like it’s hard to go find ROMs of these games, they aren’t even on torrents or shady websites, you can download them directly.
I disagree. If they actually care about the preservation of their history (which is the whole point of museums), they should be willing to invest a tiny fraction of their incredible wealth to do that, if they want to run it themselves.
Your forgetting that Nintendo emulates there own games all the time, literally since the GameCube.
I’m not forgetting anything. That’s my whole point. Nintendo has their own emulators, in both software and hardware. Why are they running some Windows emulator on a Windows PC in their own museum? It makes me think that they just took one of the myriad open source emulators (that they’re probably trying diligently to get shut down) and installed that, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re playing ripped ROMs on it, given that they include ripped ROMs on their own emulation libraries (that they charge people to access, btw). Because they’ve proven that they’re hypocrites when it comes to emulation.
There argument has never been about what they can do, it’s about what you can do.
Right, again, that’s my point. Emulation is fine and dandy when Nintendo does it, but not when anyone else does it, yet they still benefit from those other emulators. That’s shitty.
Or they could just, I don’t know, not burn out console after console running them constantly so they don’t have to spend exuberantly. That’s if the they can even produce that process node somehow. If not, making a new fab would cost 10s of millions, to produce old and completely antiquated hardware that they can already emulate on there current hardware.
What do think Nintendo does there development on? You think they run the unity editor on the Switch? They have probably used windows emulators for development since the Gamecube, and they absolutely have there own versions. Which open source emulators are they trying shut down? Something from this decade? If you mean Switch emulators, that’s just piracy, which I’m all for, but it’s not a exactly a moral high ground.
I thought they had included ripped ROMs, someone mentioned in another thread that were packaging the ROMs the same way. I’m not sure if that means the used the same tools or got to same result another way, buts it’s only a way of packaging ROMs.
It’s there IP, they can choose what’s allowed to be done with it. If they want to emulate it, they can. If they want it to only ever play on a N64DD, then thats also up to them. If they benefit from open source emulators, which I mostly doubt, then they as the fault on the emulator developer for being open source. Close it down, make Nintendo license it if you think it’s benefiting them unfairly.
I assure you they are currently runnng there in-development Switch2 games on in an emulated environment as we speak.
Or they could just, I don’t know, not burn out console after console running them constantly so they don’t have to spend exuberantly.
You’re grossly overestimating the number of consoles they would “burn through” by having a few of their original original hardware set up in their museum. If you’re worried about them running constantly, they could easily have a couple consoles per station that get swapped between throughout the day so that no one console is ever on for more than a few hours. People used their regularly NESes and SNESes for several years, I’m sure you could stretch that to decades of you had the expertise and resources of the company that invented the hardware behind you.
You’re grossly overestimating the amount of money it would cost to maintain original hardware. As another user said, hobbyists can maintain an original system themselves for decades using mostly off-the-shelf parts. The rare occurrences where a proprietary Nintendo part needs replaced wouldn’t cost tens of millions of dollars. There’s thousands of shops that can manufacture small runs of custom ICs or circuit boards for a few thousand bucks. They wouldn’t need to maintain a custom multi-million dollar facility.
to produce old and completely antiquated hardware that they can already emulate on there current hardware.
Then emulate on your current hardware, if you’re going to use emulation! Don’t use a Windows emulator from who-knows-where, when you’ve repeatedly made clear that you’re against other parties emulating your hardware! That’s certainly more embarrassing by the way, if your Windows emulator crashes and museum goers are greeted by a Windows BSOD or whatever, instead of the Switch home screen or the Nintendo Online interface.
What do think Nintendo does there development on?
We’re talking about NES/SNES games here (which Nintendo doesn’t develop anymore, btw), because that’s what they were caught using a Windows PC and a Windows emulator for. So either they’re using someone else’s emulator, or they ported the emulator that runs on the switch to run on Windows (which would be a huge undertaking, considering the architecture and OS differences between a Nintendo Switch and a Windows PC).
If you mean Switch emulators, that’s just piracy
Emulation is not piracy.
I thought they had included ripped ROMs
Some of the ROMs on their official library contained signatures from popular ROM rippers, which indicates they straight up just downloaded them from one of the various ROM sites they’ve been trying to shut down for the last couple decades.
It’s there IP, they can choose what’s allowed to be done with it. If they want to emulate it, they can.
That’s fine, I don’t have a problem with anyone emulating anything, including Nintendo. My problem lies with their hypocrisy. If they want to emulate NES/SNES games in their own museum, go for it. But at least use your own emulator on your own hardware, given they have the ability to easily do that. Using a Windows PC and a Windows emulator for that is hypocritical.
Ok that is not the case in Germany, here you can have items multiple times, to have some to archive and some to use.
I can see that the preservation aspect is very valid for highly rare or one of a kind items, but that is generally not the case with retro hardware. Yes there are examples for that too (like C65 or other prototype stuff) but nobody would expect a museum to put that to use.
No one would have cared to preserve a Mosin Nagant from 1892 when they were making 500,000 of them, why would they? You can just go and buy more, the factory is right over there. Fast forward 132 years later, they are scarce antiques. And in another 100 years, there may only be a dozen left.
The entire field of computers as we know it, integrated circuits, is about half as old as that particular rifle, and the technology has changed so fast, it’s really crazy.
So while it might seem like that’s reasonable now, I mean the people who designed those systems are often still alive, even still working. Of course we can still fix and use them.
Now give it 60 or so years, your sitting around in you retirement community, sad you lost the auction for a 2003 eMachines tower PC with all the stickers still attached, kicking yourself about how you tossed one out back in the day.
At least you kept your Atari Jaguar, kept in a hermetically sealed container, that managed to save when you had to evacuate from the 2nd Finnish-Korean Hyperwar.
Unless they store everything in high vacuum and near absolute zero, it’s going to get oxidized and fail eventually. There is no such thing as perpetuity. Might as well give them some use.
You really think an old parchment document would survive being in a high vacuum and near absolute zero?
Yeah sure, nothing lasts forever, but the really not the point. Your goal is to attempt to preserve your articles forever.
Are you going to fall short? Absolutely, but your still required to attempt to do so. So you avoid doing anything directly harmful, such as operating an old computer, firing an old cannon, or diving an old car.
Parchment would survive the vacuum and near zero most likely quite good, parchment is a type of leather after all and way more sturdy then paper, the process of thawing would be a way bigger issue.
And should it ever thaw fast and uncontrolled that would for sure ruin it completely
That is highly depending on the type of Museum. Many Videogame and Computer Museums (at least in Germany) are showing the real Hardware running, some are even allowing the visitors to use and play at the old machines. And yes, they are often very used to repairing the hardware too.
I would expect from Nintendo that they would show and use real hardware in their museum, and not some emulators. Because I can see the games on an emulator at home (for example using my Switch Online or my SNES Classic), I don’t need a museum for that experience.
I know to be a certified museum in the US, you must work to preserve your articles in perpetuity, meaning anything that could be detrimental to the article is discouraged if not totally disallowed.
They’re fucking Nintendo. They made the consoles they’re showing off in their museum. They absolutely have the ability to supply that museum with equipment and maintain it in perpetuity, because they fucking invented it
That’s not the point of it though. Not about whether you could fix or maintain it when operating it, it’s about not operating it if presents a notable risk of failure. The Smithsonian doesn’t start grinding cornmeal in a bowl from the Mississippians. The Connecticut Museum doesn’t take it’s colt rifles out the range for target practice. These organizations would use a replica to demonstrate what it was like, as opposed to risking damaging an original article.
Thats also not even necessary true either. While they may have invented there various consoles, at some point it will be nearly impossible to acquire replacement parts. They don’t manufacture the ICs or mainboards or the various discreet components. So if there’s no old stock, how would they “fix” a broken N64 (or later) console? It might be theoretically possible to fab a NEC VR4300 to replace a dead one, but probably cost hundreds of thousands, and it wouldn’t be broken anyway if you hadn’t left if running 16 hours a day so some sweaty tourists could play on real hardware.
And why would they? It would cost more, be more work, and have less reliable results than using a completely replacable computer running an emulator. The entire consumer facing side of the equation is worse if they run the games on the actual hardware, as long as the consumer doesn’t see it, which is really down to how they design the exhibit.
Do you think the public is understanding enough to accept that “The NES is really old and it broke so you can’t play super mario bros today”, when it’s the only day you are gonna be there? Temper tantrum, bad reviews, loss of face. From what I understand, Japan actually cares about all that, so Nintendo probably does as well.
They could replace all the parts in a SNES or NES with components indefinitely, because inside are either off the shelf components or specifically made components made after schematics from Nintendo. So even if nobody makes such parts anymore at the moment there is nothing (but time and money) that would stop Nintendo to order new parts based on their schematics.
Most issues with old consoles can even be fixed by hobbyists and if they can’t that’s because they don’t have access to the needed information to create new versions of the tailor made components.
So there should be no issue for Nintendo to supply their museum with replicas forever. Yes it would cost way more money then using Emulators, but it would be way more appropriate for their own museum. But no they have chosen the lazy route.
Offering visitors a nes or SNES classic - which are recent, official, Nintendo products would be less embarrassing than using a windows PC.
Oh no, poor Nintendo, how could they possibly afford a custom IC fab? They only have more money than God.
The way I see it, they have two choices. Make the investment to supply their museum with original hardware, or be ok with emulation. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too, and that’s shitty.
That would just be wasteful, and wouldn’t really be the same thing? Analogue already makes N64 FPGAs make things that are almost N64s, and Nintendo doesn’t seem to care.
Your forgetting that Nintendo emulates there own games all the time, literally since the GameCube.
There argument has never been about what they can do, it’s about what you can do. Now they are wrong under US law, but it’s not like it’s hard to go find ROMs of these games, they aren’t even on torrents or shady websites, you can download them directly.
I disagree. If they actually care about the preservation of their history (which is the whole point of museums), they should be willing to invest a tiny fraction of their incredible wealth to do that, if they want to run it themselves.
I’m not forgetting anything. That’s my whole point. Nintendo has their own emulators, in both software and hardware. Why are they running some Windows emulator on a Windows PC in their own museum? It makes me think that they just took one of the myriad open source emulators (that they’re probably trying diligently to get shut down) and installed that, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re playing ripped ROMs on it, given that they include ripped ROMs on their own emulation libraries (that they charge people to access, btw). Because they’ve proven that they’re hypocrites when it comes to emulation.
Right, again, that’s my point. Emulation is fine and dandy when Nintendo does it, but not when anyone else does it, yet they still benefit from those other emulators. That’s shitty.
Or they could just, I don’t know, not burn out console after console running them constantly so they don’t have to spend exuberantly. That’s if the they can even produce that process node somehow. If not, making a new fab would cost 10s of millions, to produce old and completely antiquated hardware that they can already emulate on there current hardware.
What do think Nintendo does there development on? You think they run the unity editor on the Switch? They have probably used windows emulators for development since the Gamecube, and they absolutely have there own versions. Which open source emulators are they trying shut down? Something from this decade? If you mean Switch emulators, that’s just piracy, which I’m all for, but it’s not a exactly a moral high ground.
I thought they had included ripped ROMs, someone mentioned in another thread that were packaging the ROMs the same way. I’m not sure if that means the used the same tools or got to same result another way, buts it’s only a way of packaging ROMs.
It’s there IP, they can choose what’s allowed to be done with it. If they want to emulate it, they can. If they want it to only ever play on a N64DD, then thats also up to them. If they benefit from open source emulators, which I mostly doubt, then they as the fault on the emulator developer for being open source. Close it down, make Nintendo license it if you think it’s benefiting them unfairly.
I assure you they are currently runnng there in-development Switch2 games on in an emulated environment as we speak.
You’re grossly overestimating the number of consoles they would “burn through” by having a few of their original original hardware set up in their museum. If you’re worried about them running constantly, they could easily have a couple consoles per station that get swapped between throughout the day so that no one console is ever on for more than a few hours. People used their regularly NESes and SNESes for several years, I’m sure you could stretch that to decades of you had the expertise and resources of the company that invented the hardware behind you.
You’re grossly overestimating the amount of money it would cost to maintain original hardware. As another user said, hobbyists can maintain an original system themselves for decades using mostly off-the-shelf parts. The rare occurrences where a proprietary Nintendo part needs replaced wouldn’t cost tens of millions of dollars. There’s thousands of shops that can manufacture small runs of custom ICs or circuit boards for a few thousand bucks. They wouldn’t need to maintain a custom multi-million dollar facility.
Then emulate on your current hardware, if you’re going to use emulation! Don’t use a Windows emulator from who-knows-where, when you’ve repeatedly made clear that you’re against other parties emulating your hardware! That’s certainly more embarrassing by the way, if your Windows emulator crashes and museum goers are greeted by a Windows BSOD or whatever, instead of the Switch home screen or the Nintendo Online interface.
We’re talking about NES/SNES games here (which Nintendo doesn’t develop anymore, btw), because that’s what they were caught using a Windows PC and a Windows emulator for. So either they’re using someone else’s emulator, or they ported the emulator that runs on the switch to run on Windows (which would be a huge undertaking, considering the architecture and OS differences between a Nintendo Switch and a Windows PC).
Emulation is not piracy.
Some of the ROMs on their official library contained signatures from popular ROM rippers, which indicates they straight up just downloaded them from one of the various ROM sites they’ve been trying to shut down for the last couple decades.
That’s fine, I don’t have a problem with anyone emulating anything, including Nintendo. My problem lies with their hypocrisy. If they want to emulate NES/SNES games in their own museum, go for it. But at least use your own emulator on your own hardware, given they have the ability to easily do that. Using a Windows PC and a Windows emulator for that is hypocritical.
Ok that is not the case in Germany, here you can have items multiple times, to have some to archive and some to use.
I can see that the preservation aspect is very valid for highly rare or one of a kind items, but that is generally not the case with retro hardware. Yes there are examples for that too (like C65 or other prototype stuff) but nobody would expect a museum to put that to use.
That’s the case… For now.
No one would have cared to preserve a Mosin Nagant from 1892 when they were making 500,000 of them, why would they? You can just go and buy more, the factory is right over there. Fast forward 132 years later, they are scarce antiques. And in another 100 years, there may only be a dozen left.
The entire field of computers as we know it, integrated circuits, is about half as old as that particular rifle, and the technology has changed so fast, it’s really crazy.
So while it might seem like that’s reasonable now, I mean the people who designed those systems are often still alive, even still working. Of course we can still fix and use them.
Now give it 60 or so years, your sitting around in you retirement community, sad you lost the auction for a 2003 eMachines tower PC with all the stickers still attached, kicking yourself about how you tossed one out back in the day.
At least you kept your Atari Jaguar, kept in a hermetically sealed container, that managed to save when you had to evacuate from the 2nd Finnish-Korean Hyperwar.
Edit: Abominable spelling
Unless they store everything in high vacuum and near absolute zero, it’s going to get oxidized and fail eventually. There is no such thing as perpetuity. Might as well give them some use.
Your body is going to fail eventually, so you might as well stop brushing your teeth and start drinking scotch at breakfast. /s
More like I rather enjoy it while it lasts instead of going into a fridge to preserve it ;P
You really think an old parchment document would survive being in a high vacuum and near absolute zero?
Yeah sure, nothing lasts forever, but the really not the point. Your goal is to attempt to preserve your articles forever.
Are you going to fall short? Absolutely, but your still required to attempt to do so. So you avoid doing anything directly harmful, such as operating an old computer, firing an old cannon, or diving an old car.
Parchment would survive the vacuum and near zero most likely quite good, parchment is a type of leather after all and way more sturdy then paper, the process of thawing would be a way bigger issue. And should it ever thaw fast and uncontrolled that would for sure ruin it completely