I am cleaning up a years old mess and mulling over abstracted inner philosophy as one does. So why do other people care if someone wants to check out, punch their own card, start life retirement. Why would there ever be a stigma or law against such a thing, (other than profiteering from misery). In my attempt to reason why some worthwhile human might find it offensive, independent of outside influences like religion, the only thing I can think of is the idea, “to give up on one’s self implies giving up on everyone else,” like perhaps the person that takes offense does so out of their desire to help but lacks an effective means or opportunity. True/not true, is there some facet I am neglecting? What do you think?
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Nah. Guilt or disappointment to others could lead to the same path. Or if the individual has no friends/family/non-social.
Edit: sorry if this isnt a complete thought it’s a good question
I have a very cynical reason. If you look at what most religions say about it (against), you have to wonder why they all agree on it and it seems to me that if you off yourself, you’re not supporting the team. When there weren’t many humans, you really needed a bunch of team players on your religion making more babies, and the dead ones can’t carry out your crusades.
Now we put capital above religion, but it’s the same thing: we need workers for our factories. We need babies to become workers for our factories. Dead people can’t make cars or babies.
True. In some sort of utopian society where labour was a choice and mostly revolved around research and progress to further humanity’s understanding of the world and minimization of suffering powered by all sorts of fancy technology eliminating both pain and boredom, the average Joe Schmoe would have hardly any real purpose, and it’s hard to make an argument that if that utopia aligns with one’s values today yet one can’t contribute to some major scientific research that one is anything but yet another CO2 emission source.
There’s a lot of reasons why people will respond negatively to someone deciding to excise themselves from reality, and part of that is because there are a lot of different types of people, but we’re almost all of us inherently social creatures.
Some people may feel sad that the person who ceased to be didn’t think to reach out to them, or didn’t clarify what was going on. This often comes with a strong feeling of guilt, a feeling that the former individual was let down by their friends who ‘should have seen the signs’. The signs can however take many forms, and be easy to miss.
Some people may feel that life is so amazing and wondrous that’s a straight up insult to discard it. Anyone doing so is almost invalidating their optimism, and it feels like a personal attack.
Yet other people, much like the first group, will feel like they were indeed given up on, like they weren’t given the chance to support the no longer present individual. A slightly different perspective that can feel like disrespect.
Finally, there are people who don’t want to acknowledge the option even exists, and anyone who uses it is making it more real. We want it to be so last-resort, that it’s never considered an option.
At the end of the day though, it’s always a permanent solution to a temporary problem, no matter how big. If you’re really considering it, you’ve spoken to the helplines, tried to get the support of all your friends and you’re out of ideas, sell all your shit, hitchhike 3 states over, and spend 3 months trying to live there. You literally have nothing to lose, and it’s worth trying every fix before making what is literally the last decision you will ever make.
You can change your situation all you like, but it’s not going to change who you are (especially as this big brother world enabled by technology makes it virtually impossible to escape your past). If you’ve reached a point where you have virtually nothing left to motivate you to move forward (especially if it has been that way for a long time), then the significant effort it would take to try to save you is unlikely to be worth it (never mind finding anyone who would actually care enough to devote themselves to such a task) - particularly with an outcome that is FAR from certain to be a positive one.
Some people just reach a point of being basically devoid of hope, and therefore pretty much dead inside.
Don’t ask me how I know.
i think it is incredibly unfair that the process of ending your own life is, in this culture, a necessarily lonely and grim affair.
according to the theory of complete bodily autonomy the option must be available, simple, painless, and ideally a joyful shared experience. but the moment you make such a desire known to others, they will try to “help” you. and i can assure you that their idea of “help” will not be pleasant for you.
so, sadly, you must tread this path alone.
philosophically, i think it offends people because it forces them to acknowledge that their own life is probably not worth preserving. we force each other to suffer through it all because no one wants to openly admit that this shit just plain-old-sucks.
It’s very tricky waters. I’m of a few minds on this subject but my primary principle is - it’s your life, you do with it what you will to it. I’ll be incredibly sad when you’re gone, but in the back of my mind, I’ll understand. I won’t like the reality moving forward without you around, but I’ll understand.
And I think with those who I know, a lot of them don’t really understand what someone is going through with suicidal ideation and their struggles. I’m allowed to do with my life as I see fit, I even have a designated death age, an age I wish to die by and I’ll do everything I can to make sure I at least see that day. I have to keep most of this under wraps from some of I know, but very few do, because I know I’ll just be triggering ‘saviors’. Saviors I don’t even want to have.
I disagree heavily that people who wish to do suicide is a selfish act. In fact, I think it’s the other way around, when people want to keep you alive and it’s usually because the reason is that they just want you as their security blanket. Their go-to person. Their coping mechanism. And if those reasons are the reasons why someone wants to keep you for, like no actual productive and purposeful reasons there, then I truly think that’s selfish in of itself. And I think it’s incredibly insufferable that people want to continue another’s own suffering by prolonging it by denying them their wish.
It’s one thing to prevent someone from suicide who might not be in the right mind, than those who have truly made their mind up. I am someone who has made their mind up for the road ahead. I have lived a life where I’ve ‘put people over’, using a wrestling term there, by making them look better than me in comparison.
I don’t think I’m giving up on everyone else and I don’t think I’m giving up on myself. I’m just giving up the things I’m truly tired of upkeeping and pretending to live in a life with what I know that I completely and continue to be, at severe odds with. And I’ve lived long enough to where I think on these things over and over to where I’ve come to the acceptance of my path and choice.
I’ve done all that I think I could for those who I cared for and try to care for. In the end, I can just say ‘I tried’.
C.S. Lewis wrote that every death in our lives is an ending not just to their life, but an end to the unique part of our own life that only happened when we interacted with them.
It’s natural to fear and mourn that ending.
Is it really that hard to imagine that someone who loves you was hoping to see you happy instead of as a moldering corpse?
I’ve got a dear friend who’s been struggling with suicidal ideation for years, and there are lots of reasons I don’t want him to, primarily that he’s a force of good in the world. Secondarily, he deserves to know joy and he can’t do that if he kills himself first (then there’s his goddaughter, his writing, getting to watch trump die, coming to visit me in Germany, his work is getting picked up more and more, apple fritters, blueberry picking, going on drives in his beat-to-shit old van, and a hundred other reasons). It’s getting to the age where even my terminally optimistic self starts to think that he deserves peace, but I can’t help thinking that therapeutic attention is the best solution (he was raised too catholic for that, unfortunately). He keeps talking to me and he doesn’t get too annoyed about it, so I’ll keep talking to him until one day, panicked, I can’t reach him, and the world will forever be worse.
