Since recent events are leading people to boycott every product/service owned or operated by a certain person (including Twitter/X), I’ve seen people labeled as a Nazi for promoting/using Teslas.
Does endorsing this product somewhat support the owner either directly or indirectly? Perhaps. Does that mean you necessarily agree with all of his views/actions? I don’t think so, but it might be seen as tolerating them enough to not want to distance yourself from him/cease participating in any action that could in any way support him entirely? Or maybe just prioritising certain things above those principles, or not believing that your use of the product is meaningful in message or impact in relation to support for the figurehead?
It’s a shame because while there are a lot of other EVs, Teslas are a popular line that are in many ways leading the world in electric & hybrid vehicle technology. A boycott of Tesla could do some harm for the world & hinder the fight against climate change (similar to a boycott of Greta Thunberg’s climate efforts over her position on Israel). Is it worth that risk to disassociate from/remove any possible support for the person? Maybe?
Also, notably, the person in question didn’t found the company, contrary to popular misconception, and simply purchased it when he saw a business opportunity like he did with multiple other companies. So it would be a shame to forever link the brand with him inextricably rather than recognising its origins and potential to exist outside of his orbit (and maybe it will divest from him eventually, possibly as a necessity for commercial viability/brand image in the wake of this apparent boycott).
Lastly, some have pointed out that while the owner’s views on climate change issues are mixed at best (with quite a few scientists having accused him of climate misinformation-spreading), his association with climate-friendly tech innovations could inspire the political group he is now heavily embedded in to reconsider the potential utility of such technologies or the need to address climate change in general, many of whom are currently resistant to those ideas.
Own a Porsche, VW … ?
This is just getting ridiculous, OP. Gen Z is the new catholic guilt.
Ferdinand has been dead and gone a long time now, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone in my lifetime associate a German car with the Nazis. Though I did have someone in my neighborhood for a while with a sticker like this that didn’t make me feel very welcoming to them.
To me, this is more akin to saying it’s 1940 and I think the Type 1 is a good car for me, but I’m feeling conflicted what those profits might be going toward. Elon is a very present day and active entity, unlike Ferdinand Porsche.
Why are people downvoting this? This site has turned into reddit
You can’t downvote things…
What does that mean?
Don’t downvote everything you disagree with, not a difficult concept. This post isn’t even aggravating, it is a legitimate question.
I literally am not able to downvote things, there is no down button for me
I think it depends on your instance. I can, from lemmy.ml
Can’t from hexbear, I’m not sure we can even see aggregated vote totals if other instances downvote
Tesla having an oligarchical stranglehold over US EVs is why I can’t affordably own a better brand like BYD. If you want to be idealistic about Tesla’s supposed climate change role, explain it to me in the context of The Purpose of a System is What it Does. Tesla uses public funds to make luxury cars while suppressing the EV industry through its proprietary infrastructure, obsession with private transit, and government influence. The Boring Company is a direct response to California trying to implement high speed rail so that the wealthy don’t have to share space with workers.
Of course I negatively judge someone for owning one. If it’s a cybertruck, they’re feral and I write them off as a member of society. Electrification is dead on arrival as long as they exist.
More simple: if you buy a Tesla after January 20, you’re kinda suspicious at least…
this is an essay not a question :P
I don’t think you can really separate Tesla the company from Elon, as even if he was no longer CEO, he still owns so much of the company. Despite them making something arguably good for the world as a whole, many see Elon himself presenting a more immediate danger than the possible emission reductions.
Hurting Tesla financially as a company is a nonviolent way to fight Elon. Hurting someone physically or financially who owns a Tesla does not affect Elon in any way, as the car has already been purchased. Any Tesla employees that may lose a job due to an extended boycott would be an unintentional effect, as I doubt anyone begrudges a regular employee of a company that, politics aside, makes something that isn’t inherently bad for people.
If you have concerns of malicious behavior to you or your car, you could always get one of those “I bought this before Elon went crazy” magnets, but in turn, any Elon supporters may now dislike you.
This post has way too much nuance for a site with downvoting.
Just take the Whose line is it anyway? approach.
“…the points don’t matter.”
Say your piece and get on with your life.
Umm…
If the CEO of a company does the “normal” capitalistic stuff, like shitty wages, then its just bussiness, and the person is giving in to the convienience isn’t necessary doing something wrong. There is not ethical consumption under capitalism.
But
musk has crossed the line from “average shitty capitalist” to a LITERAL NAZI DOING A NAZI SALUTE BEHIND THE PRESIDENTIAL PODIUM ON LIVE TV
If you buy anything with a musk as CEO or majority stockholder, it means you don’t care if you do bussiness with nazis, and that is (IMO) a very shitty thing to do.
Lile the market isn’t all filled with nazis and you have no choice. You have a choice. There are many car manufactureres that are, while being a shitty capitalist, aren’t LITERAL NAZIS.
Like this isn’t just some N-word slip of the tongue (even that is already fucked up by it self), this is a full on fascism, musk is a LITERAL NAZI DOING A NAZI SALUTE
You literally cannot trust a nazi on “promises” of doing better for climate change.
You might save a bit of emissions on the electric cars. But simultaneously, SpaceX will be using un-optimized rockets with total disregard for the climate to achieve his wet dream of getting a human on mars, maximizing the rocket’s performance, when there is a slightly more expensive rocket design that could save a lot of environmental damage, with the same performance. The fascist will pick the cheaper option, doesn’t matter of the enviornmental damages.
(sorry for the caps, I have to emphesize the point)
I appreciate and respect all your points and largely agree. For the record I won’t be buying a Tesla, I just thought it was an interesting discussion. I do want to comment on the “There is no ethical consumption under capitalism” aphorism/maxim, in a way that I think supports your argument or at least the logic underlying it.
Firstly, even if it is the case that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, that doesn’t appear to suggest that there can’t possibly be varying degrees of morality of different forms of consumption under capitalism. In other words, even if all consumption under capitalism is unethical, there can still be more ethical (or less unethical) and less ethical (or more unethical) consumption under capitalism, at least in theory. Not all consumption under capitalism is necessarily ethically identical or equivalent.
If it were the case that all consumption under capitalism was equal in moral wrongness or moral weight, with no variation, then it seems to follow that supporting a Tesla would be no worse or better than supporting any other vehicle (or product/service for that matter). I don’t think this is true, and I think your point demonstrates that it isn’t true as well. It’s possible that it would be worse than supporting other things, and there could also be things that are worse than supporting a Tesla in theory.
This is important not just for the sake of a semantic technicality, but because people (consumers) frequently use the “There is no ethical consumption under capitalism” phrase to deny any moral responsibility for their actions related to consumption. I think that precisely because we do have differing choices available to us (within the flawed capitalistic system), which are not necessarily morally equal (even if they are all immoral, just to different degrees or in different ways), and some consumption decisions are more unethical than others, we do have moral responsibility to choose the least unethical (or “most ethical”) options that we can realistically access.
To suggest that “because all things are bad, it doesn’t matter what we do” (not that you’re saying this, quite the opposite), would be somewhat evoking an appeal to futility and nirvana fallacy; because nothing is perfect, there is no difference between any solution/option and any effort to reduce harm is invalid. And I think this is the mentality that people are embodying when they use the no ethical consumption under capitalism line to justify their morally questionable decisions.
Secondly, and somewhat less importantly depending on intended meaning behind the phrase, I’m not certain that there is no such thing as ethical consumption under a capitalist rule in technical terms, as despite the inherent ethical problems with capitalism, I don’t think it’s really morally reasonable to expect someone to do something they can’t physically/possibly do, or which would involve self-sacrifice. If there were truly no ethical consumption under capitalism, then if someone wanted to be perfectly ethical, the only morally permissible option would be to unalive themself (which comes with other moral consequences). So it’s basically a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation, which doesn’t quite sit well with me. I appreciate the sentiment behind the saying, as it alludes to the inherent & inescapable problems with capitalism (which can only be addressed by changing the system entirely), but I think it makes sense that ought implies can (Kant’s ethical formula whereby if something is morally obligated to do or an action is one’s moral duty to carry out (or refrain from doing, if it’s in reference to negative duties), then it must be within a moral agent’s ability to do so - or I would add, within the scope of generally intuitive reasonability as an expectation for them to do, since it might be technically possible for them to do something if it involved significantly harming or compromising their own life, but that expectation or imposition on them would violate their own rights to self preservation, autonomy, etc). In other words, if someone is truly doing everything they can within reason or practicability to avoid making unethical consumption choices, or to make the least unethical choices available to them in a broken system that they didn’t design themself or choose to be born into, then in my book, they are being ethical as a moral agent, despite the unethical capitalist system they live in. But we should all do what we can to help reform it additionally where possible.
I hope this makes sense & wasn’t too convoluted, pedantic or annoying :)
You ever owned a Ford? Or a BMW? An Audi, perhaps?
There’s nobody associated today that is an issue in the same way. Sure they’ve history, but this is like buying a VW in 1937.
Those companies are also owned by billionaires
Nazi saluting billionaires?
Their class interests align, even if they’re not personally Hitlerites their economic dominance was each created by a Hitlerite form of subjugation against the rest of the world
Ones that hide it better, but it’s still a billionaire
Public gestures and words have power, don’t be a nerd
Are there any minor failures in your Tesla that you can claim warranty against? I wouldn’t begrudge anyone stuck with one now who bought in the past, but a sort of civil disobedience, aimed at costing the company as much as possible, would be an ethical imperative here. Claim any warranty repair you can. Be a ‘picky’ customer. Make support and sales spend extra effort and money in any way possible for your property. After all, you paid for it, make them spend as much money as possible.
This alone doen’t make you a Nazi, but that’s still a terrible course of action.
A wise man once said…
Calling out Musk and his actions, and avoiding the company that he owns and control, are the least one can do given all the trouble he’s causing, or trying to cause.
Several companies sell electric vehicles, and unlike Tesla, most aren’t owned by a Nazi (sympathiser).
People who bought a Tesla before Musk publicly went hard right couldn’t know. If I was one of them, I’d look at selling the vehicle, but I understand long-time Tesla owners don’t want the aggravation or take a financial hit reselling an undesirable vehicle.
However, people who buy a Tesla vehicle today clearly buy the baggage that comes with it in full knowledge of what they’re buying and I have nothing but contempt for them.
Yeah, this is my stance as well. There are also better high-end alternatives nowadays, like an electric BMW.
I wouldn’t get BMW, lesser range. Worse software. Rivian or Tesla for me.
yeah i’m conflicted about it, we have a leased tesla through my so’s company and 3 years left on the contract. it would cost so much to get out of it right now that we can’t seriously consider switching the car. but we wake up every day wondering if we’re going to have to scrape off stickers, or wash a fresh spray painted artwork off the hood.
that sucks so much because we really enjoyed that car, and nothing really came close on the market when we got it. Polestar or Ioniq look better and better and we will probably switch to one of those when we give the Model 3 back.
As long as you’re not driving a cybertruck, you’re safe in my books
Throw one of those “I bought it before I knew he was a nazi” stickers on your bumper
Have you actually had those things happen, or do you just fear them? I can see vandalism becoming a problem with owning a Tesla but I didnt think we were there yet.
vandalizing a Tesla is such a bad idea given that they are rolling surveillance machines
Gotta keep an Elon mask in your car
so far just a casual “fuck elon” drawn in the dust with a finger, but i’ve seen photos of spray painted swastikas and there’s this website where you can order stickers for free to cover teslas: https://www.stopelon.eu/stickers
we’ll see, our area is really quiet and we have good relations to everyone living around, but it could happen anywhere when parking in town.
get a custom sticker that says “fuck elon, fuck my lease”
That site seems to be more about Tesla owners displaying something which says "Don’t target me. I’m against Musk too. "
