Hi all! This is an alt for anonymity. Please be gentle, this is a hard topic for me to discuss.
I’m a progressive United States citizen who is looking to get out. I’m of Italian descent so I’m working on getting Italian citizenship through jure sanguinis, but it’s going to take some time, if it works at all (gotta substantiate some relations) and won’t extend to my husband until he completes a citizenship test, which he can do after living in Italy for two years.
Here’s my big question: is moving to Italy even a good idea?
I know there’s a significant element of fascism there, but that seems to be the case to varying extents throughout Europe. I’ve visited a few times as a tourist and everyone was very kind. I also have a US cousin that lives there as a permanent resident near Napoli and she is very encouraging, saying people will be welcoming. We don’t want much, just to make a living and maybe have a kid.
Italy has just changed it’s rules on citizenship. You now need to prove you had an Italian parent or grandparent in order to be eligible. Before, there was no generational cut off.
I literally just read about this. There goes that opportunity. Ugh.
Depends on how committed you are to the change.
Here’s the Reddit sub on the issue of citizenship by ancestry: https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/
Thanks for the link. I don’t understand your comment, though.
Unless you’re a directly targeted demographic, leaving the US is the coward’s way out. You abandon everyone who doesn’t have the means to flee. Stay and fight for something. Running away from problems doesn’t solve them, it just cedes power to the problem.
TIL: disinformation is a synonym for “presumptuous asshole”. Who knew?
TIL a ham sandwich is a synonym for cowardly pig. But we both knew that already.
LOL
You don’t know anything about this person or their personal circumstances. The only thing I know about you, based on your post history and these two comments, is you’re a divisive moron.
Dogmatic idiots like you made your country the shit hole it is today. Fuck off, blue MAGA.
I was planning on leaving if the orange got reelected. I only didn’t because in the years between when I made that decision (2021) and now, I found myself in a relationship cohabitating with my partner. She’s here as a refugee and can’t leave or that gets rescinded. It took some serious soul searching to decide to retract my longstanding plan to escape this hellish fascist-speedrun. I was even doing phone interviews. If you think you could be happy, do it.
politically speaking i think that makes no sense. i mean, you’re leaving because of the far right in power in the u.s., but then again italy is being governed by the far right. leaving your country, and therefore much of what you know, your support network, for political reasons only makes sense if there’s a well funded fear for your life because of your political activities. in that case i (as a communist) would probably go to a country with bland politics (where the far right would have no risk of reaching power for at least 10 years or so), or a straight up communist country, even if not of the same persuation.
there are other things that might make italy more attractive, such as having public healthcare, decent education, some social security coverage (subpar as compared to much of the rest of western europe, i think), cheap groceries. however, on the other side, housing and utilities are expensive. it will be better if you have a degree or some sort of qualification in high demand, it will be easier for you to get a job. however, when you’re an immigrant, locals will probably give preference to other locals, at least because it will be easier to communicate with.
Yes but isn’t Italy part of the EU? Once he’s in, it is easier to move to a different more liberal country member of the Union.
Learn the language as soon as possible, at least basic level. Bureaucracy is going to be hell, there’s no nicer way to put it. But I think you’ll enjoy living in Italy. You are not happy where you are now, so it’s great you’re doing something about it. Best of luck!
Moving to another country, especially when the native language is not English, that’s a massive challenge. It’s important that you’re going there for a positive reason. Otherwise you could have chosen anywhere, right? So your motivation to be a community member there would be low. So don’t just run away from Musk. Find other goals and reasons to aim for Italy.
Also, every country and city has some assholes loving in it. Not everyone is very kind. That’s life.
I wouldn’t want to live near Napoli, or anywhere in the south. Italy is basically 2 countries. The rich north and the extremily poor south. It’s a nice country but also has it’s own issues. I love to go on holiday there, don’t know if I would want to live there. But I have the luxury of living in The Netherlands, I guess anything is better than the US right now. Knowing the language helps a lot, if you do not speak it then for sure learn Italian, even if it’s just the basics. Americans don’t have a great status as expats or tourists, anywhere really, adjusting to the customs and loosing the americanism is recommended.
Might I ask about your concerns about Napoli? Are they more than crime?
Are there any areas you’d recommend? We’re looking for more community/family engagement and a slower lifestyle, if it helps.
I was just a tourist, so take that into account. But in Napoli I felt fine on the main shopping streets, but when I would take a side road I felt very unsafe and watched. It’s clear you don’t belong there and you feel a target on your back, or at least that was my experience. Tourist heavy areas are better, but there are more pickpockets there too. I felt like I constantly had to look over my shoulder and shouldn’t divert too far from the busy roads.
[I hate the north, they put up their nose at us like we’re peasants.
It’s really bad how the country is so divided. It would be better for everyone if this would change. But there’s a lot of crime in the south, so I wouldn’t want to live there.
Be careful. If you move to Italy, you might start hating people over how they eat food(like eating spaghetti with bread)
Hah, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’ve been on the “double carbs bad” train for awhile, but I don’t care when other people do it.
Trump isn’t fascism, it’s authoritarian sure but he’s in it for his own criminal financial gain. For his self enrichment he mobilises the fascist tools of nationalism and division but it isn’t the rigorous ideology of state and society of fascism that he promotes: It’s more of a kleptocratic autocracy. Trump will destabilize the U.S. economy for his own profit, likely shifting reserves into $Trump crypto while China and Russia pick up the pieces. So moving to Italy is an excellent idea. It’s beautiful, the weather’s good, you might well have problems finding well paid work but you’ll eat well - what more could you want!
You emigrate to Italy and then you’ll be an immigrant from the US. One’s a verb, the other a noun.
Once you have Italian citizenship you’ll be able to live an work anywhere in the Schengen region. So a lot more options once you’re in.
In the future, consider ensuring you actually know what you’re talking about before attempting pedantic corrections.
That’s not the difference. Both words have noun and verb forms.
Immigrate = to move to a place
Emigrate = to move from a place
Immigrant = a person who moved to a place
Emigrant = a person who moved from a place
So they would be emigrating from the US and immigrating to Italy. They would be a US emigrant and an Italian immigrant.
I’m not too fond of the plenty Americans having the same idea.
Stay there.Italian living in Italy here.
Yes we have fascists but the americans who commented this post ignore a couple things:- our form of government is different from yours, the multi-partisan system helps keeping those things in check;
- Italy is a founding member of EU and is financially depending on it, so even the fascist know that they cannot just do what they want, otherwhise Bruxelles might pull the plug.
Thus said, the problem here is another: jobs. There is a high level of unemployment, expecially among people that don’t work in super specialized environments, like engineering, CS or healthcare, just to make some examples. I have a lot of friends and relatives that had to move abroad just to make a living.
And I mean A LOT: my best friend lives in Australia, my brother in Ireland, literally half of the company I hanged out with as a teenager lives in Holland and I myself lived in Spain for a couple years before getting an opportunity here. So, unless you work one of these jobs I suggest you to priorityze another country.Thanks for your response. The multi-party government is exactly what kept us interested in Italy. We can both work remotely, so that’s the plan for income, plus we inherited a bit of money when my husband’s father passed. Nothing huge but we won’t show up destitute.
If you have the possibility to work remotely, this might help a lot.
On a side note, there is something I feel I have to be honest towards you: Jure Sanguinis is a gimmick of the fascist party (they are so fond of Latin names).
They think you have more right to be Italian if your grandfather left the country, because it was a shit place job-wise as it is now, and you know fuck all of our culture than if you lived here your whole life, perfectly integrated, went through school here, work here, pay taxes here but just happened to be born in another country: a friend of mine from Albania had to jump through incredible hoops and managed to get citizenship at 26 despite living here since she was fucking 2 y.o.
Do what you will with this information.
Yes, we very very very strong 🥰 big Forza Bruxelles, Belgians mightiest of all Europe. Our history is countless won battles one after another. We ruled the whole world, you know?
I meant “Bruxelles” as a figurative “European Union” since the EU headquarters are there.
I make it clear because I don’t want to be mistaken for empowering Belgium. /s
you’re aware that italy is ahead of us in the fascism timeline, right?
No self-coup happened yet, most constitutional freedoms are still respected, there are no political extra-judicial arrests (or at least not that many). Except for some repression of communitarian spaces and public protests, it is not sensibly different from any center/center-right neoliberal government.
if by “self-coup” you referring to trump’s election; they did the same thing with their own fascists and their parliament helped in the same way that our congress helped and their repression is also focused on lgbt arena’s like ours is; but goes well beyond minor policy changes.
I’m talking about a private individual invading the physical and digital spaces of public institutions with the president providing political cover and stopping other parts of the state to intervene. That’s a self-coup. Nothing like that happened in Italy and so far the government is operating within legality.
No, that’s still just a normal coup of congress’s authority
Yeah but their velocity is much much lower atm.
how so?
Outside of losing a war, I’m not sure of any civilization that’s changed as hard and fast as America is at the moment. And it’s only going to get worse as the economy crashes.
the united states is part of a civilization that’s changing more rapidly than the rest of it and even then, only its privileged classes; italy’s another part of western civilization that has also changed in the same manner and to a further degree than americans have (so far).
You do realize you’re attempting to move to the country that invented fascism in an attempt to…escape fascism?
We are also the first country that got rid of fascism 😉
They aren’t too far behind us on the backslide either atm
they’re ahead of us; they’ve had a fascist leaders for a couple of years and have already legally disenfranchised many.
There is a fascist party in power there rn
You know that you will have to keep paying taxes to the US, right?
Wut
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident living or traveling outside the United States, you generally are required to file income tax returns, estate tax returns, and gift tax returns and pay estimated tax in the same way as those residing in the United States.
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. You are subject to tax on worldwide income from all sources and must report all taxable income and pay taxes according to the Internal Revenue Code.
The question is asked probably because there’s no real way of avoiding the empire’s grip if you’re born into it, even if you naturalize as a citizen of another country.
Holy fuck! I didn’t know that.
Yeah, I only learned about it recently too… It’s pretty ironic considering that the whole “No taxation without representation” colonial shtick continues to be worshiped by the bootlickers of the empire.
