More men should read The will to change by bell hooks. Patriarchy hurts men in different ways than it does women, we are all oppressed by it, including gender-nonconforming individuals. Patriarchy stunts male emotional health and creates these unhealthy repressed feelings. Rather than blaming women, men should look towards the systems that impact our daily lives and how they force us into little boxes we don’t always fit neatly into naturally, suffocating us and justifying the general subjugation of women, which in no unclear terms exceeds the suffering of men under patriarchy.
It is so fucking odd, how many people are claiming that e.g. the male loneliness issue is blaming women and then agree with your post.
I agree with your post. I just don’t understand how so many people here can agree that the patriarchy is harming men and is e.g. isolating men, but then turn around and act like mentioning the symptoms and talking about them, makes you misogynistic.
I don’t get it. Women have my support, I just hope I will have theirs too.
Ive a million stories of hurt men who didnt deal or heal well with their hurt, and ended up hurting others (and themselves) for it.
Usually its some tragic thing that happened when they were young and never dealt with it, because culturally men have been told to shove it down and man up for decades at least.
But, I’ve been told many a tragedy from male family members, friends and ex lovers. And then watched them go from victim to abuser, or some other consequence, and its sad
Men should be taught, and allowed to express themselves. Its literally okay to cry, its a process of emotion.
I appreciate you taking the time to suggest steps for a better society. I followed the link and read what was available, but there were only a few pages until the index + the front and back cover. I’ll probably look into finding a full copy later. Thanks for thinking about us. <3
I'd like to share my personal story if that's ok. Wall of text incoming and only read if you genuinely want to.
I want to share this because I have an honest question from a place of wanting to be a better person. I realize this isn’t about me, but in order for me to be in service of people other than myself, it is necessary for me to understand some things. I’m respectfully requesting help with that, to you or those willing to educate.
The second part of the meme hits really close to home to me because it’s something lots of men are taught at a young age in a traumatic manner. In my case I can’t count the amount of times I was told to “be a man” or asked if I was “gonna cry like a girl” which could happen literally anywhere by anyone, especially caretakers.
I went to an all boys school. I vividly remember the father of one of my classmates coming to talk to the class when my classmate missed school one day. He begged. Literally, begged to the class to stop teasing and bullying his son because he was going to kill himself any day. This was the 8th grade and was not a one time thing. He was a sensitive kid and got teased for it. He got called the f word a lot in a place and time where coming out of the closet as sexually diverse was considered “valid” grounds for physical violence/abuse by most men. Verbal abuse at the very least.
I was a weird and sensitive kid myself and got teased and bullied as well, but never that much. Was really timid, awkward and shy, but I usually got away with not being beaten up all the time or being straight out emotionally tortured all day like some were, by letting other kids cheat off me. This got me “protection” from some bullies that sat next to me. When I think about how I felt back when I was a kid, all I can remember is fear and wanting to be invisible. Constant fear. I had a whole lot of anger too, but usually lashed out on myself alone. Too scared of everything and everyone to get angry at anyone but myself. My family setting wasn’t a picnic either, but that’s a different story.
Basically, any time anyone gave me any kind of attention, including my parents, I perceived it as a dangerous threatening situation that made me feel uneasy.
I realize most people have been wronged by one or more men in much worse ways. I’m sorry and those of us who have harmed or still harm have no excuse. I shared my story so you understood what became my responsibility and duty to unlearn and remedy to not continue the endless samsara of victimization. I genuinely have been putting in the work I’ve found useful to help me stop causing people harm. Have taken this very seriously for more than decade now.
Here’s my question, in honest good faith.
Do you understand that a book that is intended to be used as a blueprint for positive masculinity that begins by requiring men to “understand patriarchy” can feel, to some men, like when catholic missionaries went to “uncivilized cultures” and made sure everyone “understood the gospel” and was very clear about having original sin and being impure and them needing to be saved?
This is not a rhetoric device I want to use against you or anyone. I am requesting empathy and suggestions on how to deal with this. Like, do you understand that it feels like some people are telling us men that we are devoid of value or have no legitimacy as humans unless we adhere to a specific belief system or “treatment”? Do you have any advice or suggestions for us or idk can you offer insight?
I realize many broken people such as myself and my classmates can become full grown monsters and society should do something that avoids monsters being bred and to treat, lock or remove people that have become monsters.
I just want to know if you understand this, and if you do, my request is you please share your thoughts.
Having read your story, I think you’ll actually love what bell hooks has to say, here. When I said patriarchy affects men and women in different ways, your story is exactly what I mean. Patriarchy puts men into very narrow boxes of what is deemed “acceptable,” and destroys what is outside that boundary. Women are impacted more by patriarchy than men are, but The will to change is a call to action to liberate both women and men from its shackles. It’s a deeply empathetic work that touches on stories very similar to yours, not a condescending authority piece. hooks writes with a deep love and a desire for herself to grow as well, frequently she speaks of her own mistakes and negative feelings towards men such as her father, and how she came to forgive and love him.
Trust me, you’ll love this book by the sounds of it.
No problem! As a pansexual man myself, who was often bullied relentlessly for being sensitive myself (I was closeted my whole life through schooling and am only recently coming out more), I never felt like hooks was invalidating my experience in any way.
I’m really sorry about what you has to deal with in your past. <3
I’m about 1/6th through the book now and feel the same way.
I mean, if i’m being perfectly honest, i feel like the term “patriarchy” is a little unfair but also I get why it would be chosen and a necessary concept to build from. I guess I feel like no one sex or gender built society on their own and the suggestion of attribution by nomenclature feels like a misleading simplification. This is not something that i’ll lose sleep over, though, and i’m open to hearing out why i’m wrong.
Gonna get back to the book now. It really is a compassionate message. Thanks again.
I liked it a lot! I know people talk about the patriarchy a lot, and thus a lot of what it puts forward isn’t “new,” but the depth hooks goes in on the various facets of patriarchy specifically really helps a lot.
Fr. A male friend of mine got into make up. Nail polish and such. I notice men who do this, stick to safe black. I asked if he wanted more colour, and he did. I remember cracking being a thing back in 2008 or so. A great caviat to go from just black, to black with colour! Perhaps men could bring this back into fashion lol
hooks suggests that men need to develop a more nuanced and inclusive understanding of masculinity, one that values emotions, relationships, and mutual respect.
Yep, written by a woman. Replace that with “value traversing rivers on couches strapped to floats and having a blast with the pals” and you’ll get somewhere.
Valuing something already is an emotion so you’re being emotional about being emotional about something so, yeah, no. Go climb a tree, create a tasty recipe, fix a shoe. Shave the soap.
More men should read The will to change by bell hooks. Patriarchy hurts men in different ways than it does women, we are all oppressed by it, including gender-nonconforming individuals. Patriarchy stunts male emotional health and creates these unhealthy repressed feelings. Rather than blaming women, men should look towards the systems that impact our daily lives and how they force us into little boxes we don’t always fit neatly into naturally, suffocating us and justifying the general subjugation of women, which in no unclear terms exceeds the suffering of men under patriarchy.
It is so fucking odd, how many people are claiming that e.g. the male loneliness issue is blaming women and then agree with your post.
I agree with your post. I just don’t understand how so many people here can agree that the patriarchy is harming men and is e.g. isolating men, but then turn around and act like mentioning the symptoms and talking about them, makes you misogynistic.
I don’t get it. Women have my support, I just hope I will have theirs too.
I support mens health.
Ive a million stories of hurt men who didnt deal or heal well with their hurt, and ended up hurting others (and themselves) for it. Usually its some tragic thing that happened when they were young and never dealt with it, because culturally men have been told to shove it down and man up for decades at least. But, I’ve been told many a tragedy from male family members, friends and ex lovers. And then watched them go from victim to abuser, or some other consequence, and its sad
Men should be taught, and allowed to express themselves. Its literally okay to cry, its a process of emotion.
Support fellow humans
I appreciate you taking the time to suggest steps for a better society. I followed the link and read what was available, but there were only a few pages until the index + the front and back cover. I’ll probably look into finding a full copy later. Thanks for thinking about us. <3
I'd like to share my personal story if that's ok. Wall of text incoming and only read if you genuinely want to.
I want to share this because I have an honest question from a place of wanting to be a better person. I realize this isn’t about me, but in order for me to be in service of people other than myself, it is necessary for me to understand some things. I’m respectfully requesting help with that, to you or those willing to educate.
The second part of the meme hits really close to home to me because it’s something lots of men are taught at a young age in a traumatic manner. In my case I can’t count the amount of times I was told to “be a man” or asked if I was “gonna cry like a girl” which could happen literally anywhere by anyone, especially caretakers.
I went to an all boys school. I vividly remember the father of one of my classmates coming to talk to the class when my classmate missed school one day. He begged. Literally, begged to the class to stop teasing and bullying his son because he was going to kill himself any day. This was the 8th grade and was not a one time thing. He was a sensitive kid and got teased for it. He got called the f word a lot in a place and time where coming out of the closet as sexually diverse was considered “valid” grounds for physical violence/abuse by most men. Verbal abuse at the very least.
I was a weird and sensitive kid myself and got teased and bullied as well, but never that much. Was really timid, awkward and shy, but I usually got away with not being beaten up all the time or being straight out emotionally tortured all day like some were, by letting other kids cheat off me. This got me “protection” from some bullies that sat next to me. When I think about how I felt back when I was a kid, all I can remember is fear and wanting to be invisible. Constant fear. I had a whole lot of anger too, but usually lashed out on myself alone. Too scared of everything and everyone to get angry at anyone but myself. My family setting wasn’t a picnic either, but that’s a different story.
Basically, any time anyone gave me any kind of attention, including my parents, I perceived it as a dangerous threatening situation that made me feel uneasy.
I realize most people have been wronged by one or more men in much worse ways. I’m sorry and those of us who have harmed or still harm have no excuse. I shared my story so you understood what became my responsibility and duty to unlearn and remedy to not continue the endless samsara of victimization. I genuinely have been putting in the work I’ve found useful to help me stop causing people harm. Have taken this very seriously for more than decade now.
Here’s my question, in honest good faith.
Do you understand that a book that is intended to be used as a blueprint for positive masculinity that begins by requiring men to “understand patriarchy” can feel, to some men, like when catholic missionaries went to “uncivilized cultures” and made sure everyone “understood the gospel” and was very clear about having original sin and being impure and them needing to be saved?
This is not a rhetoric device I want to use against you or anyone. I am requesting empathy and suggestions on how to deal with this. Like, do you understand that it feels like some people are telling us men that we are devoid of value or have no legitimacy as humans unless we adhere to a specific belief system or “treatment”? Do you have any advice or suggestions for us or idk can you offer insight?
I realize many broken people such as myself and my classmates can become full grown monsters and society should do something that avoids monsters being bred and to treat, lock or remove people that have become monsters.
I just want to know if you understand this, and if you do, my request is you please share your thoughts.
Having read your story, I think you’ll actually love what bell hooks has to say, here. When I said patriarchy affects men and women in different ways, your story is exactly what I mean. Patriarchy puts men into very narrow boxes of what is deemed “acceptable,” and destroys what is outside that boundary. Women are impacted more by patriarchy than men are, but The will to change is a call to action to liberate both women and men from its shackles. It’s a deeply empathetic work that touches on stories very similar to yours, not a condescending authority piece. hooks writes with a deep love and a desire for herself to grow as well, frequently she speaks of her own mistakes and negative feelings towards men such as her father, and how she came to forgive and love him.
Trust me, you’ll love this book by the sounds of it.
Thanks for reading. Gonna look it up right now.
No problem! As a pansexual man myself, who was often bullied relentlessly for being sensitive myself (I was closeted my whole life through schooling and am only recently coming out more), I never felt like hooks was invalidating my experience in any way.
I’m really sorry about what you has to deal with in your past. <3
I’m about 1/6th through the book now and feel the same way.
I mean, if i’m being perfectly honest, i feel like the term “patriarchy” is a little unfair but also I get why it would be chosen and a necessary concept to build from. I guess I feel like no one sex or gender built society on their own and the suggestion of attribution by nomenclature feels like a misleading simplification. This is not something that i’ll lose sleep over, though, and i’m open to hearing out why i’m wrong.
Gonna get back to the book now. It really is a compassionate message. Thanks again.
Glad I could be of help!
I haven’t read this one, but anything by bell hooks is a banger.
I liked it a lot! I know people talk about the patriarchy a lot, and thus a lot of what it puts forward isn’t “new,” but the depth hooks goes in on the various facets of patriarchy specifically really helps a lot.
Fr. A male friend of mine got into make up. Nail polish and such. I notice men who do this, stick to safe black. I asked if he wanted more colour, and he did. I remember cracking being a thing back in 2008 or so. A great caviat to go from just black, to black with colour! Perhaps men could bring this back into fashion lol
Removed by mod
Appreciate the key points!
Yep, written by a woman. Replace that with “value traversing rivers on couches strapped to floats and having a blast with the pals” and you’ll get somewhere.
Valuing something already is an emotion so you’re being emotional about being emotional about something so, yeah, no. Go climb a tree, create a tasty recipe, fix a shoe. Shave the soap.