To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
That’s a good point. I think that’s why his veil slipped. He was so shook, he had nothing in the moment but rage and instinct. I thought he knew he was playing double-agent all along, but it seems to have been more complex than that. He wasn’t out to fuck the Ghormans, just catch the insurgency that would come to stoke the fires of rebellion.
I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it
Agree 100%. So well played. That moment was huge. “Who are you?” That question in that moment was devastating. His hated nemesis didn’t even know who he was. And I think he didn’t have a good answer to that question at all. Who was he? What did he stand for? Why was Cassian even his enemy? You could see all of that in that moment. What an incredible feat of acting and direction. So subtle, but it told an entire story in a second. Alas, a second was all he had.
“The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
That was interesting. “Sometimes it even works.” We’ve never seen the force fall before except when it was someone stretching out to learn new abilities or maybe when they were fatigued and unfocused. But that wasn’t the experience she was describing. I’m going to assume she was just an untrained force sensitive who never learned the focus Jedi acquire to make their use of the force more reliable. But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seemed to me like the “force healer” could tell Andor’s fate, stressing he is a messenger. Maybe she could see the importance in him to retrieve and deliver the death star plans?
But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
I think we’ve seen hints of it. Chirrut Îmwe in Rogue One is in the same vein. Clearly force sensitive, but untrained. The lesbian cult in Acolyte has more training and focus, but clearly not Jedi or Sith. We also see the little kid at the end of TLJ who uses the Force to levitate something, but isn’t trained.
Chirrut is a good example. And you’re right about those other examples except I see the lesbian cult as an alternative to Jedi/Sith with their own training and disciple. So what really stands out to me is that this older woman grew up in the era of the Jedi.
And the Jedi find force users. They even knew about the secretive cult but chose not to act until there were children that needed training. So what is her story that she is so untrained? That’s what I’m curious about. Is there a large untapped well of force sensitive out there even during that time? (But yes, Chirrut raises the same question. The answer seems to be yes.)
I think this is more getting at the expansion (reversion?) of the lore we saw in Ahsoka with regards to Sabine Wren. Its not that there only certain select people are capable of using the Force. Everyone is connected to the Force. Everyone has the potential to use it, but you have to have the right mindset/focus to do so. For some, those we call Force-sensitive, that just naturally comes more easily to them. For others, they have to train and work at it.
I think of it like making music or drawing. Everyone has the potential to make music, but some people are just naturally more inclined towards it. Some people can just pick up an instrument for the first time and play it well without practice or training. Others can still learn to make very good music, but they have to train and practice a lot. An elite music school could train anyone, but they’re going to seek out more naturally gifted people.
I’m guessing this Force healer (like Sabine) is in that latter camp. She doesn’t have a natural aptitude for the Force like Luke or Obi-Wan. But she learned how to tap into a certain aspect of it to help heal.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
That’s why I think this is more of a reversion of the lore than a change or expansion. In the OT, there’s never any suggestion that only Force sensitive people can use the Force. People, including Luke and Anakin, are described as being “strong with the Force,” but that implies that others are weak with the Force.
It was the Legends EU which really created the idea that only certain people born with an innate connection had the ability to use the Force at all. Within this framing, the vast majority of people in the galaxy are simply not Force-sensitive and will never have the ability to use the Force. Among those who are Force-sensitive, the degree to which one can use the Force depends on your innately born connection to it. So someone like Luke or Anakin had very little (if any) upper limit to what they could do with the Force because they had a very strong connection. While others (like Tionne, one of Luke’s earliest students in Legends) had a very weak connection to the Force, but were still Force-sensitive in a way someone like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian never could be.
I don’t believe this is the lore that Lucas ever intended for the Force. I believe his intention was what I described above: anyone can use it with proper training, but some have a better natural inclination.
Yeah and then we’re back to… cough midichlorian count choke as a measure of how strong someone is with the force and I suppose as a criteria for who gets Jedi training and who doesn’t.
![[Discussion/Spoilers] Andor Season 2 - Chapter III](https://media.piefed.social/posts/dl/qq/dlqqzq2glURgu9W.jpg){kind=link}
That’s a good point. I think that’s why his veil slipped. He was so shook, he had nothing in the moment but rage and instinct. I thought he knew he was playing double-agent all along, but it seems to have been more complex than that. He wasn’t out to fuck the Ghormans, just catch the insurgency that would come to stoke the fires of rebellion.
Agree 100%. So well played. That moment was huge. “Who are you?” That question in that moment was devastating. His hated nemesis didn’t even know who he was. And I think he didn’t have a good answer to that question at all. Who was he? What did he stand for? Why was Cassian even his enemy? You could see all of that in that moment. What an incredible feat of acting and direction. So subtle, but it told an entire story in a second. Alas, a second was all he had.
That was interesting. “Sometimes it even works.” We’ve never seen the force fall before except when it was someone stretching out to learn new abilities or maybe when they were fatigued and unfocused. But that wasn’t the experience she was describing. I’m going to assume she was just an untrained force sensitive who never learned the focus Jedi acquire to make their use of the force more reliable. But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seemed to me like the “force healer” could tell Andor’s fate, stressing he is a messenger. Maybe she could see the importance in him to retrieve and deliver the death star plans?
I think we’ve seen hints of it. Chirrut Îmwe in Rogue One is in the same vein. Clearly force sensitive, but untrained. The lesbian cult in Acolyte has more training and focus, but clearly not Jedi or Sith. We also see the little kid at the end of TLJ who uses the Force to levitate something, but isn’t trained.
Chirrut is a good example. And you’re right about those other examples except I see the lesbian cult as an alternative to Jedi/Sith with their own training and disciple. So what really stands out to me is that this older woman grew up in the era of the Jedi.
And the Jedi find force users. They even knew about the secretive cult but chose not to act until there were children that needed training. So what is her story that she is so untrained? That’s what I’m curious about. Is there a large untapped well of force sensitive out there even during that time? (But yes, Chirrut raises the same question. The answer seems to be yes.)
I think this is more getting at the expansion (reversion?) of the lore we saw in Ahsoka with regards to Sabine Wren. Its not that there only certain select people are capable of using the Force. Everyone is connected to the Force. Everyone has the potential to use it, but you have to have the right mindset/focus to do so. For some, those we call Force-sensitive, that just naturally comes more easily to them. For others, they have to train and work at it.
I think of it like making music or drawing. Everyone has the potential to make music, but some people are just naturally more inclined towards it. Some people can just pick up an instrument for the first time and play it well without practice or training. Others can still learn to make very good music, but they have to train and practice a lot. An elite music school could train anyone, but they’re going to seek out more naturally gifted people.
I’m guessing this Force healer (like Sabine) is in that latter camp. She doesn’t have a natural aptitude for the Force like Luke or Obi-Wan. But she learned how to tap into a certain aspect of it to help heal.
That’s a cool take.
And to be honest, it always made sense that everyone should have a connection to the force.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
There’s nothing there about the force belonging to the Jedi. I think Luke said as much in TLJ.
That’s why I think this is more of a reversion of the lore than a change or expansion. In the OT, there’s never any suggestion that only Force sensitive people can use the Force. People, including Luke and Anakin, are described as being “strong with the Force,” but that implies that others are weak with the Force.
It was the Legends EU which really created the idea that only certain people born with an innate connection had the ability to use the Force at all. Within this framing, the vast majority of people in the galaxy are simply not Force-sensitive and will never have the ability to use the Force. Among those who are Force-sensitive, the degree to which one can use the Force depends on your innately born connection to it. So someone like Luke or Anakin had very little (if any) upper limit to what they could do with the Force because they had a very strong connection. While others (like Tionne, one of Luke’s earliest students in Legends) had a very weak connection to the Force, but were still Force-sensitive in a way someone like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian never could be.
I don’t believe this is the lore that Lucas ever intended for the Force. I believe his intention was what I described above: anyone can use it with proper training, but some have a better natural inclination.
Yeah and then we’re back to… cough midichlorian count choke as a measure of how strong someone is with the force and I suppose as a criteria for who gets Jedi training and who doesn’t.
I don’t like it… but I’ll accept it I suppose.
Yeah, technically, the Jedi Order could train anyone, but they have a strict minimum midichlorian count. Haha.
There’d be a whole industry of “alternative medicine” products that supposedly boost your midichlorian count for official tests. Haha