This question is 100% a provocation. Trump got democratically elected and thousand of soldiers carried out his orders while they could have refused. Now that USA government has made his own “military special operation” are we going to be racist with americans and treat them like russians? Calling them orcs or implying the population is all shit?
It’s gossamer thin, admittedly. But there is a shred of a justification for striking Iran that is covered by international law. I’m not saying it is a proven case yet that a preemptive strike against their nuclear program was called for, against a state whose raison d’être is to destroy Israel. But if the circumstances were just right, the Israeli-US allies could get away with it. (And if no good proof materializes, I suspect they will get away with it anyway. Remember Colin Powell’s PowerPoint? Did that have consequences other than killing people next door? I suspect that’s why they’ve crossed this bridge.)
There is not even a hint of a justification for what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Not in international law. And any possible moral high horse has already been shot long ago. It’s just imperial ambitions.
So we should not equate these two special military operations just yet. We may in the future and then we can throw all our rotten tomatoes at DC. But right now one probably should reserve judgment and refer to them as “alleged orcs” if one is given to name calling.
Americans will ban you from Lemmy if you do
I buy your provocation.
When it all started and I got called an orc and an occupant on the streets, I felt the utter emptiness, as if I was seen just as my passport. Some Russians got either isolated in their communities abroad, some said they feel that they’re Ukrainians now, others felt symmetric hate towards the world and bought Putin’s resentment.
It has never helped the cause unless you wanted to make the world colder, more alien.
Racism is always a good idea.
Well, if the people in power responsible for this mess don’t come up with another new fancy marketable name (Like fascists usually do), I guess they’ll go down in history as “The MAGAs”. For example: “Nazi” and “German” are two completely different things, the fact that this sentence exists makes me feel uncomfortable. There’s no need to antagonize an entire population just because their government sucks.
Their state sucks, regardless of their government. A slave state that subsists on violence and mass murder. A rotten culture of supremacism and hate.
this post is confusing, you know that Western imperialism has always plagued for a long ass time and will always plague the rest of the world?
I hate that it had to come to this but we are now required to replace the S’es in the name of the US with the more evil and ethnic letter Z:
- United ZtateZ
- UZ
- UZA
Okay, this is unironically a hilarious strategy.
Trump got democratically elected
Debatable.
thousand of soldiers carried out his orders while they could have refused
Refusing lawful orders comes with life-ending consequences.
Calling them orcs or implying the population is all shit?
Personally, I think equating any population with the actions of its government is a poor move, but you do you.
Refusing lawful orders comes with life-ending consequences.
Not even close to real? As far as I’m aware, death punishment is not what happened to any of those that refused during Vietnam or Afghanistan.
And also for a certain value of lawful I might add. Last I heard congress didn’t say the USA is going to war with Iran. Making it not exactly a war situation. Hey, now that you say it, suspiciously close to the last time a Republican president decided to play little dictator and fucked up the middle east. Strange how that keeps on happening.
As far as I’m aware, death punishment is not what happened to any of those that refused during Vietnam or Afghanistan.
“Life-ending consequences” doesn’t necessarily mean literal death. Court martials for serious offenses (which disobeying orders absolutely is) can come with very heavy penalties. It’s possible that it’s a regional colloquialism, but ‘life-ending consequences’ refers to consequences that end “life as you know it”, typically referring to something that is reasonably impossible to recover from.
Ok yes, then I agree. But deciding to stop a mass murderer has often a possible life ending consequence and I think most agree that it would still be the right way to act.
Disagreeing on the Orcs being used a racist stereotype here, more of a fascism marker, since they love social darwinism so much (survival of the strongest) and do cruel things to people they perceive as weaker. So accurate representation of the ZReps.
Unironically yes.
I’m American. Always has been, but it is everywhere else too. Dichotomous thought is still a sign of an adolescent mind.
It gets extra messy with this one. I absolutely do not support either a nuclear program in Iran or bombing another country. I don’t support any theocracy and I especially do not support one based on a religion that condones jihad. I don’t support any disordered mind that believes in a collective or individual imaginary friend in any context.
I don’t like 47 at all, but taking aim at a nuclear program in a State that exports hate and has expansionist tendencies seems like a no brainer move anyone should do. I’m probably biased but any authoritarian misogynist culture that covers and harms women is Orc behavior. To me, religion and stupidity are the same word. Using either to harm and oppress half of the population is totally disgusting to me. It is hard to have sympathy for such backwards disordered men living in fantasies killing in the name of an entity they have never had a conversation with and following the writings of someone that was clearly out of their mind on drugs.
…but taking aim at a nuclear program in a State that exports hate and has expansionist tendencies seems like a no brainer move anyone should do. I’m probably biased but any authoritarian misogynist culture that covers and harms women is Orc behavior.
Sounds to me like you suggest we should bomb the USA
If you can take out all nukes, hell yeah. Bomb all of them into oblivion. I’m for first do no harm and live and let live.
If my neighbor is taking about shooting up a school, and no one I report them to seems to change the situation, and I see them loading up the car to go shoot up the school, I’m not going to feel bad about shooting my neighbor then and there, if I have no other option. I don’t care to wait until they pull the trigger at the school to confirm their intentions.
I mean you’re ultimately talking to a physically disabled guy living in the USA where I face homelessness and a terrible future. I despise this country and know the lack of ethics better than most. Still, the primary exporters of jihad are still the primary exporters of jihad.
Israel should not exist, and is a crusader state. The boarders of the middle east were absolute garbage and the result of the colonial era of cartel like western criminality. I don’t support any of that crap. That does not change the fact that Islam has no reformation to stop jihad like how separation of church and state and the christian reformation put an end to church based crusades. People can try to tone down the message but fundamentalists will always draw power from the most ignorant using this element of teaching. That can never and will never go away.
Why is it bad when it is Islam hate and not worth mentioning when it is Christian hate?
You say that Christianity seperated religion and government during the Christian reformation.
In my eyes, the situation in the USA is not unlike what you describe jihadist do. Suppression of women, spreading hate and controll. Its the same thing if you look at it objectivelly
Ok, but can we agree Islam, as with many religions, but especially Abrahamic religions, and especially it, is very harmful, not just to women, but to all people it controls?
We can decide to follow a world where diplomacy and international law are the base of cooperation and problem solving, or we just decide to use brute force on everyone that has views or politics we dont like. In history the last one has proved to be very dangerous cause it’s open to be interpreted in whatever way the ones in power choose. So yes, Iran it’s not in the top 10 of my favourite governments either. For me it’s not a reason to bomb it out of nowhere, because we go back to the law of the one with the most power, and as of now i wouldnt trust Trump doing whatever he feels like.
It was the change in Syria and the mountain on the boarder that Israel now controls that changed the geopolitical situation and strategy. The radar shadow of that mountain was what prevented Israel from having an opportunity to stop or influence Iran’s nuclear policy. Some deeper depth geopolitical youtubers have done uploads on this change and implications. The position will likely end up back in Syrian hands eventually… or it might. Again like I have said elsewhere, I don’t support Israel or their escalations but Iran is shit. They are supplying arms to Russia, exporting terrorism, and run by a disordered misogynistic group of men that kill in the name of fantasy and a collective imaginary friend that no one has ever had a real conversation with. That is fucking cave man level bullshit from anyone anywhere.
A lot of contries other than Iran are filled with religious extremists, including the USA themselves, but you dont see trump striking any of those countries. Again, USA is supplying arms to Israel, that they use to strike civilians to claim a land that is theirs according to a religious book. That alone in your view should be enough to strike both USA and Israel. Religion extremism, terrorism and mysoginism and such are a plague in a lot of countriest, but the USA hit the one that is the biggest threat to thei closest ally. This is just politics, classic imperialist american politics. Nothing more nothing less. And i repeat, im not a fan of Iran either. its just that we cant revert to an international scenery dominated by brute force imo.
US is not supporting Russia, but Iran is. Israel is atrocious and it would not surprise me at all if they absolutely know about Oct 7th well in advance. It was the result if their prejudice and Palestinian concentration camps before Oct 7th in either case that caused the initial attack. However it was not entirely without cause like with Russia in Ukraine. Everywhere is complicated. The USA is super polarized and in pretty bad shape, but it us not exporting suicide bombers. Is it better to target with 10 million dollar munitions remotely no, but those are not targeting crowds of people as the primary goal
but taking aim at a nuclear program in a State that exports hate and has expansionist tendencies seems like a no brainer move anyone should do.
Are you talking about israel or iran?
I don’t support either.
Or the US?
nuclear program in a State that exports hate and has expansionist tendencies
authoritarian misogynist culture that covers and harms women
backwards disordered men living in fantasies killing in the name of an entity they have never had a conversation with
Do you not see the irony in your words, here?
their dastardly brown cultist way of life, our civilized white democracy
Regarding the soldiers refusing - https://youtu.be/TwPLqGkYnBA is worth a watch. Not as straightforward as you imply.
So i guess the US government is as much shit as the russian one threatening soldiers for refusing orders.
Show me a single military that doesn’t punish dissenting soldiers.
German soldiers can refuse orders under certain conditions (e.g. if they against human dignity)
Tbh you didn’t need the attack on Iran to do so
No because, you see, they good. They not previously communist, in fact, they hate commies. So very easy, if america do its good and iran deserved it because only us can have nuclear bombs and they cant cause they are brown. Everything was ok according to international law, nothing was violated whatsover, instead russian yes they violated law and all their soldiers are stupid cause they follow blindly the orders of an autoritarian leader which uses poor excuses to pursue economic or political interests. Very different.
This is very clearly satire, (right?)
Yeah, didn’t put the /s but sometimes i forget how stupid can online people be and that somebody could really think this way.
