A 2023 study at MIT made this discovery, which could be a boon for storing electricity.

The team calculated that a block of nanocarbon-black-doped concrete that is 45 cubic meters (or yards) in size — equivalent to a cube about 3.5 meters across — would have enough capacity to store about 10 kilowatt-hours of energy, which is considered the average daily electricity usage for a household.

3.5 cubic meters of material ought to be enough to make quite a comfy house

There is a tradeoff between the storage capacity of the material and its structural strength, they found. By adding more carbon black, the resulting supercapacitor can store more energy, but the concrete is slightly weaker, and this could be useful for applications where the concrete is not playing a structural role or where the full strength-potential of concrete is not required.

They talk about making roads with the material, but I suspect electrical posts (utility poles) could also be made of this, which would certainly last much longer than roads and be cheaper to maintain and fix

  • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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    21 days ago

    This is just marketing talk, what you suggest would not be possible. The concrete mix to create a foundation for a house is very precise and you can’t alter it without messing up critical properties. It also isn’t clear if something in the shape of a foundation would even work as a capacitor.

    It’s a couple of guys doing cool stuff in a lab, it’s nowhere near a practical application. I hate these kinds of media hyped articles where a small scale preliminary lab result is just extrapolated into a fairytale result.

    From what I read in the paper, it is unclear how this will scale at all. They created a capacitor and stored tiny amounts. In theory by using more material, you can store more energy. But that doesn’t really work because the electrodes used have a maximum amount of material they can affect. So you would need to put in a whole bunch of electrodes all over the place to make it work.

    In the end it would make a really complicated, convoluted battery. With the only upside is it “only” needing cement, carbon black and water (plus a whole bunch of other stuff they didn’t list in the article but is in the paper). With how little materials you need for a LiFePO4 battery, I don’t know how this would ever compete.

    Read the actual paper, it doesn’t make the claims the marketing blurb does. And IMHO those claims aren’t backed up by the paper at all.

    • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      Concrete has different spec ratios, spec a higher psi concrete, and allow the lower end strength.

      Commonly done when you want to use accelerators or retardants already.

      Edit

      Edit 2, an even better one for making your own in a mixer, it’s not as exact as you think.

      • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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        21 days ago

        Yes, now try adding carbon black and slicing the material into layers of conductive zones (the cement) and insulating layers in between (at that scale probably some kind of plastic would be required). The ability to support a whole house and be stable over time would be destroyed by this.

        Adding carbon black in the amounts required to make it work well would turn the concrete into dust, they said this in the paper. So the amount you can add is pretty low, and it will still reduce the strength, so you would need to compensate. However adding sand and stone also messes with the ability for it to work as a capacitor. The little capacitors they made themselves contained no sand and no stone and they called it “concrete-like”. This then got turned into being “integrated” into concrete foundations in the marketing, but the researchers probably didn’t mean actually building a foundation using this material.

        And like I said, you need the insulating layers, it isn’t a magical material. It’s just a cement being made slightly conductive using carbon black. Then alternating conductive and insulating layers creates a capacitor, like all capacitors ever are made.

        Plus you need to integrate the electrodes all over the place, I don’t know how you would do that and still have the concrete be load bearing. It would be like a Swiss cheese full of holes all over the place.

          • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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            21 days ago

            They are talking about way higher amounts, tens of procents. And good luck convincing any structural engineer to add dye to a load bearing piece. It’s fine for something like a driveway or fancy decorative pillars, but not a foundation.

            And this was in the paper, they tested how far they could go before the cement mix wasn’t good any more. And to iterate: they did not use concrete, it was just cement along with a lot of additives and the electrodes. It’s not even clear concrete could work, or if the sand and stone would disrupt the ability for it to work.

            Plus the layering required of alternating conductive and insulating layers and the electrodes. Or are they magically solved by changing the mix?

    • benignintervention@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      A couple of guys doing cool stuff in a lab is how progress is made. If we stopped people like Tesla, Newton, and Faraday because “candles are readily available and whale oil is a natural resource” we wouldn’t have any of the tech we take for granted today.

      This discovery is super cool, like imagine its applications in walkable cities where the entire pedestrian pathway is also storing energy from wind and solar

      • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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        21 days ago

        Comparing something done in 2023 with anything done hundreds of years ago is a bit of a false equivalence.

        Calling this a “discovery” is also a bit of a stretch. What did they discover exactly? Putting carbon black in stuff makes it conductive? We knew that. Putting alternating layers of a conductive material and insulators creates a capacitor? We have known that for over 250 years.

        I’m not saying what they did isn’t cool. Or that we shouldn’t let students do cool research projects like this. By doing the research, putting in the work, we can advance our knowledge. I’m all for investigating this further and see where it leads.

        But let’s not get carried away and just extrapolate a marketing blurb into infinity. Going from we got a led to light up in a lab to “imagine its applications in walkable cities where the entire pedestrian pathway is also storing energy from wind and solar” is maybe a bit of a leap without anything to back it up.

        I realize it’s the job of the university’s marketing department to hype stuff up and make it look good for investors. But they often go way too far. Making leaps that are way beyond what the research showed, well into the nonsense realm.

        • benignintervention@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          They found a way to create a high surface area capacitor made largely from abundant resources. Even a proof of concept is a discovery. We may not see it in practice in our lifetimes because science and industry take time, but that doesn’t diminish the value at all.

          Why is this a false equivalence? I’m not saying this is the next Faraday. I’m comparing contemporaries. You can’t know what technologies will make what kind of difference in the future, but there’s no harm in being excited about our interested in them and their possibilities. I think my comparisons are fair, especially if you consider the technology of each contemporary era. What about Turing? He created a mechanical computational machine and extrapolated the future possibility of machines that could mimic human communication. That is absolutely an edge case assumption given the technology of the time and yet here we are with LLMs running rampant.

    • onslaught545@lemmy.zip
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      21 days ago

      You should probably stop trying to speak authoritatively on a subject you clearly know nothing about.