There was a lot of black people in medevial europe. But conservatives are trying to erase history while claiming that it’s “the left” who is changing it.
Also, people from the Mediterranean routinely traveled to Africa, and vice versa. It wasn’t all the time but it was common. It’s like traveling between the US and Latin America. They’re different areas of the world but so close that mixing is impossible to avoid. Sicily has a measurable amount of African heritage.
Before the Caliphates happened and christendom responded by creating the north south division, it was entirely unreasonable to view any part of the Mediterranean as distinct from the greater cultural whole aside from specifics about who specifically was living where at what time.
In fact Islamic empires regularly had an irredentist idea about their right to dominate the Mediterranean granted by being the true inheritors of the Roman Empire (especially after they took Istanbul)
Even in that time of division though, the typical Venetian had far more in common with the Typical Tunisian than they did with the typical Dane. Could even be part of how the “Protestant World” ended up looking so similar to a map of “the parts of Europe that were the least integrated into the Mediterranean core of Catholicism’s historical forming grounds and institutions”
The comparison to modern travel is a bit off though… The vast, VAST, majority of humanity would never travel further than a few villages over in their entire lifetime. The ‘mixing’ of cultures isn’t nearly as pronounced as you’re suggesting. Consider that even medieval “France” was made up of over 6 distinct cultures with often different languages.
You don’t believe Spain is part of Europe, or you’re insisting that their comment must mean something beyond it literally said?
Because their comment was ultimately just about the fact that there was more than enough contact between Africa and Europe for random black people to be Arthurian knights or whatever. And that’s just a fact.
This might really grind your gears: There were even black Vikings.
There’s evidence of Viking slave raids and trading expeditions in the Mediterranean, specifically on the North African and Southern Spanish coasts, not to mention all the contact they had with Byzantium.
So, yes, there were a lot of black people in medieval Europe. Just not as a notable percentage of the total population outside of Southern Spain, but in the sense that even today a couple thousand people is still a lot of people.
I’m saying Spain having Moors doesn’t really warrant saying Medieval Europe (as a whole) had “a lot of black people” imo.
So, yes, there were a lot of black people in medieval Europe. Just not as a notable percentage of the total population outside of Southern Spain, but in the sense that even today a couple thousand people is still a lot of people.
Just not as a notable percentage of the total population
Indeed. A couple of thousand today is definitely not a sensible metric for “a lot”, since that’s an incredible tiny population compared to overall.
It’s just when someone says there was a lot of black people in Medieval Europe it does peak ones interest because there really wasn’t by how you’d first think of what “a lot” means.
You’re saying that, because you’re invested for some reason in black people not being on screens in a fictional world.
It can be a bit funny and seem inaccurate is all. If someone wants to put in black people to such setting or whites to Ancient Chinese setting or whatever then by all means. It just might not accurately represent the typical situation at the time.
Not in medieval England, or other Northern European countries. They existed but they very much stood out. And most fantasy settings tend to be northern European.
It would be fucking cool to see a medieval Spanish style fantasy setting though.
There was a lot of black people in medevial europe. But conservatives are trying to erase history while claiming that it’s “the left” who is changing it.
Also, people from the Mediterranean routinely traveled to Africa, and vice versa. It wasn’t all the time but it was common. It’s like traveling between the US and Latin America. They’re different areas of the world but so close that mixing is impossible to avoid. Sicily has a measurable amount of African heritage.
Before the Caliphates happened and christendom responded by creating the north south division, it was entirely unreasonable to view any part of the Mediterranean as distinct from the greater cultural whole aside from specifics about who specifically was living where at what time.
In fact Islamic empires regularly had an irredentist idea about their right to dominate the Mediterranean granted by being the true inheritors of the Roman Empire (especially after they took Istanbul)
Even in that time of division though, the typical Venetian had far more in common with the Typical Tunisian than they did with the typical Dane. Could even be part of how the “Protestant World” ended up looking so similar to a map of “the parts of Europe that were the least integrated into the Mediterranean core of Catholicism’s historical forming grounds and institutions”
The comparison to modern travel is a bit off though… The vast, VAST, majority of humanity would never travel further than a few villages over in their entire lifetime. The ‘mixing’ of cultures isn’t nearly as pronounced as you’re suggesting. Consider that even medieval “France” was made up of over 6 distinct cultures with often different languages.
I wonder what “a lot” means for you
Would a pretty large portion of Spain count for you?
Not for most part of Europe, no.
You don’t believe Spain is part of Europe, or you’re insisting that their comment must mean something beyond it literally said?
Because their comment was ultimately just about the fact that there was more than enough contact between Africa and Europe for random black people to be Arthurian knights or whatever. And that’s just a fact.
This might really grind your gears: There were even black Vikings.
There’s evidence of Viking slave raids and trading expeditions in the Mediterranean, specifically on the North African and Southern Spanish coasts, not to mention all the contact they had with Byzantium.
So, yes, there were a lot of black people in medieval Europe. Just not as a notable percentage of the total population outside of Southern Spain, but in the sense that even today a couple thousand people is still a lot of people.
I’m saying Spain having Moors doesn’t really warrant saying Medieval Europe (as a whole) had “a lot of black people” imo.
Indeed. A couple of thousand today is definitely not a sensible metric for “a lot”, since that’s an incredible tiny population compared to overall.
And I’m saying they didn’t say that. Because they didn’t.
You’re saying that, because you’re invested for some reason in black people not being on screens in a fictional world.
It’s just when someone says there was a lot of black people in Medieval Europe it does peak ones interest because there really wasn’t by how you’d first think of what “a lot” means.
It can be a bit funny and seem inaccurate is all. If someone wants to put in black people to such setting or whites to Ancient Chinese setting or whatever then by all means. It just might not accurately represent the typical situation at the time.
Not in medieval England, or other Northern European countries. They existed but they very much stood out. And most fantasy settings tend to be northern European.
It would be fucking cool to see a medieval Spanish style fantasy setting though.
Objectively false.
Please define “a lot”, for the claim that in Northern Europe or England there was a lot of black people.