They are literally undermining human rights, including the rights of LGBTQ people. You do know that Russia is one of the harshest places for LGBTQ people. It’s literally illegal to display pride symbols in any way. Also Russia started the war in Ukraine, they literally attacked and decided to occupy a sovern country. China is probably one of the most censorship heavy countries on earth and has suppressed acts of violence like the Tienanmen Square Massacre. How can anyone support countries like this WTF?
Yeah, I got questions about Tienanmen, but not the same ones. Like was the CIA involved in the counter protest outside the school campus?
Queerphobia is slightly less of a problem in China than in Russia but it is harder for LGBTQ people there, especially trans people to get affirming care.
You are yet another disingenuous liar.
While western countries are restricting youth access to HRT, China is establishing a clinic dedicated to providing HRT to trans Chinese teens?
More trans people are killed in the west than in China or Russia
Tell me about them Pride parades and gender clinics in Russia. If I’m such a liar and these countries are such a bastion of LGBTQ rights tell me about how Russia affirms and protects LGBTQ people. So far it seems they’ve banned people from talking about it or displaying symbols of it, and they make it very hard to access treatment, plus there’s a fair amount of social stigma and violence.
“the gays” in Russia:
Gay Russians are like a former head of the NKVD who allowed massive, unfounded arrests of innocents?
Interesting analogy.
And it was much harder in the 90s in the US than it is now. Gay bashing was still pretty common. Change takes time. The direction of change is at least as important. It’s obvious that Russia and China are changing in diametrically opposite direction from one another. Go on see for yourself on Red Note, plenty of gay and lesbian content there.
Harder? Being queer and unhoused can be pretty damn bad in the states. In China your boss might discriminate but you don’t have to worry about being homeless.
A core tenet of Liberalism is that money/income is exempt from moralistic judgement. A country that lets their poor suffer homelessness isn’t ‘bad’; a country that doesn’t have Gay Pride marches is.
It’s how they pinkwash countries like Israel and the USA
The overwhelming majority of people are kinda dumb and the dumb ones tend to be more loud, violent, and confident due to the inability for introspection. Humans will forever be doomed.
Sounds like the way the US is going to me.
You do know that Russia is one of the harshest places for LGBTQ people. It’s literally illegal to display pride symbols in any way.
Most of Putin’s supporters are anti-gay. You’re not asking “How can anyone support Russia?” — you’re really asking “How can anyone who os pro-gay support Russia?”
suppressed acts of violence like the Tienanmen Square Massacre.
That’s one act of violence on the 300-2700 deaths from 36 years ago. That’s much violence than other great powers. Do you support ANY large/powerful country?
Why do you post this spam on lemmy.ml? You are obsessed about “tankies”, China bad, the usual…
You’ll find more support for your beliefs in a more right wing place like lemmy.world.
‘Tankies’ always side with the right
How funny you think it is that lemmy.world is right wing, shows just how brainwashed you are. Is blahaj.zone also right wing? They also don’t tolerate tankie apologia either, as evident from the fact they do indeed block lemmygrad and hexbear.
Anyone who dislikes china and russia is Right wing to you eh?
Of course it’s right-wing, lemmy.world is literally just a liberal hub LOL, its no different than reddit’s awful default subs.
Man we both think the other is brainwashed, and we won’t convince each other to change our entire beliefs in one or several posts, that’d be impossible.
I just don’t get why you don’t post this in an instance more aligned with your views.
I’ll probably crosspost it later. Don’t want to make too many posts too quickly.
Are you for censorship or against it?
I am anti-censorship within reason. Hate speech and bigotry are big No-Nos and the people who perpatrate them are harmful to the rest, especially vulnerable groups. What? You were expecting me to say some pro-trump freeze peach bullshit? China and Russia Censorship is not equal to banning bigots.
Do you believe that poverty is a moral issue?
You could say the same for Palestine and yet a lot of the same people who criticise China and Russia love to praise Palestine…
I think a lot more of it is based on either who is the aggressor or a deep rooted hatred of the west depending on whether or not you’re a tankie
There’s a world of difference between supporting the liberation of Palestine and praising it. I don’t think anyone is under the illusion that it’s a great place to live, but that doesn’t mean I want them to be murdered.
LOL this is like one of those support Israel bcs they are the only democracy in the middle east and Palestinians hate the gays.
And LOL at using Ukraine, that had a fascist coup and STARTED the war and ethnic cleansing on the Russian speaking east to compare with Russia.
Those nazis even beat up woman’s rights marches. Not even geztting into LGBTQ people.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/ukraine-activists-at-womens-solidarity-event-must-be-protected-from-attacks/
And there we go with the Tinyman square BS, grasping at straws from half a century ago, which is not even what they make it out to be.You know nothing about Ukraine. Me, my parents and most of my relatives are russian speaking, and we never had any problems. And still, a lot of Ukrainian soldiers speak russian, even those who usually speak Ukrainian.
One of the many many discriminatory laws put in place against the Russian minority is that they can’t even use it for anything official.
Not in school, official documents or whatever.
And you want to claim ‘they had no problem’ while being attacked by nazi azov scum for 8 years?
LOLAzov are ultra-nationalists? Russian speaking guys from Berdiansk? LOL.
As of official language, it was a roll back from the law passed by pro-russian politicians, and it was the right move. We were overwhelmed by russian influence, and language was used to pull us into the russian world.
Azov, like Tornado, Sich and plenty more are a bunch of nazi scum. IDC what some Banderite says.
Really not interested in your nazi appologist BS.
Glad you’re losing the war and got what you deserved for being US/UK proxies.
So suck on thatWell, I hope russian soldiers will show you their “love”. That’s all they can do and when they return home, they’ll do it again and again.
LOL I’m not Russian.
You mistakenly assume most of the world supports your horrible regime bcs you’re in the little western information bubble.But you’re talking like a typical russian or their bot. They like to talk bullshit about nazis. Or you’re brainwashed by their propaganda. That’s really possible because their propaganda works perfectly on far right, nazis, far left and anti-western. But here’s the thing: you don’t want to mess with them. 30 years ago, we watched russian TV (because it was better), listened to russian music (because that’s what was playing everywhere), laughed at their jokes about stupid Americans, and mentally we were at russia’s side regarding almost every political point. We were against NATO, we considered the West as an enemy. We thought our nationalists were crazy freaks. Then we learned the hard way they were right. Our “enemies” helped us, and our “friends” wanted to kill us.
They are literally undermining human rights, including the rights of LGBTQ people.
There’s a new country to add to this list from this year.
How can anyone in good faith support Zelensky, the bloodthirsty tyrant who turned my country into the biggest prison in the world where people are kidnapped off the streets, beaten, forced into vans and then sent to die in a meatgronder?
That’s a rhetorical question of course, I’ve heard the answer[s] so many times already, basically some version of “it’s a war so anything Zelensky does is absolutely normal/justifiable and it’s OK if you, your family and basically everyone you know dies, no big deal. No human rights apply to you, now please go and die fighting for my geopolitical interests”.
But you cannot make a surprised pikachu face after that and be shocked that people actually support the evil-evil Russia, which liberates people from the regime you support.
Russian bot, you’re too fat. Draft to army is not comfortable, but being wiped by occupiers is much worse.
Yeah yeah, “if we don’t kill you then Russia will”. Heard that one too many times from the good guys as well :)
Yet nobody was able to show me how people were wiped out in the liberated territories (Crimea, Melitopol, etc.), how millions of us living in Russia were wiped out, etc.
Again, you don’t get to make a surprised pikachu face when you are literally telling people whom you are trying to kill that they are Russian bots.
Zelenskyy is doing what he can to keep Ukraine independent from Russia. He has successfully sought aid and support from the West and Europe.
Russia has no legal or moral claim to Ukraine. Russians and north North Koreans are dying for Putins pointless causes. It is and has been clear that Europe would respect Russian borders who the whole thing is pointless and you deserve to pay the punishment for trying to invade Europe.
Thanks for telling me what I just said in my comment people already told me a million times, I guess? 🤷♂
People support not countries but their beliefs about those countries. And people maintain their beliefs, ignoring not fitting facts.
A good faith argument kind of presupposes that all people constantly objectively question their convictions. And I don’t think we humans do that. We’re very happy with the way we think. And very capable of holding opposing viewpoints at the same time.
It is easy to be caught up in jingoistic fervor. It’s easy not to register all the incremental changes that go against your ideals. It’s easy to overlook atrocities that are committed “by your team, for the cause.” It only takes mental gymnastics we’re perfectly capable of as a species.
And the US isn’t? The US doesn’t exactly have a stellar record either, so if you think the US is some bastion of human rights you haven’t. been. paying. attention. And if you think LGBT rights are safe from that you’re delusional.
And that’s not even considering the many, many atrocities and war crimes the US has committed and continues to commit overseas (Yup, that’s a ChinaDaily link - if you believe US media reports about Chinese human rights violations then you must be willing to give the Chinese media the same courtesy about US violations, right?) So my advice to you is to hold on to that smug sense of US human rights superiority for as long as you can, cause once the illusion fades you’re in for a rough time.
OP said jack shit about the US.
90% of manufacturing is done in China, India and other (formerly) poor countries. You’re paying 50p for plastic tat, £1 for a t-shirt and all the other slave labour. That’s something that USA,UK, Germany have been offshoring since the 1950s. Western countries and China heavily locked together for mutual success.
When you talk about how to support countries, what exactly do you mean? Why we continue to do business with these countries? Pride symbols didn’t even exist until 1990s.
Also if you want people to be more liberal you have to educate and share with them. It won’t happen by boycotting people. Russia is the perfect example of that.
Donno man, China seems a lot better right now than US at least.
Not saying that either should be supported though^^
How can someone support them in good faith? I’ll focus on China, but here are some reasons:
For starters, I don’t believe that it’s possible to impose on a society from the outside to accept LGBTQ people. For example, making LGBTQ acceptance as a precondition on having good relations with China has literally 0% chance of improving life of LGBTQ people there. It’s more likely to backfire. On the other hand, having good relations, and allowing cultural exchange to happen naturally, can - and I think, over the last few decades before relations soured, has - improved LGBTQ acceptance there.
Also, amongst superpowers, China has a relatively good track record when in comes to using military force. They have had conflicts with neighboring countries, but it’s nothing compared to the wars the US or Russia (and USSR) have fought.
Finally (this one I don’t share, but I think it can be held in good faith), someone might not care about human rights all that much. For example, if you consider government-sponsored murders to be just the same as any other - not better, but also not worse - then even if you include Tienanmen Square and other murders by the government, the murder rate in China is still lower than most of the world.
