I enjoyed the episodes overall. Well written. The Ghorman massacre was well done. Completely believable down to using green, inexperienced troops, knowing they panic of a situation broke out.
Syril’s reaction to finding out what Dedra was doing was brutal and shocking. I was surprised how she just brushed it off. It revealed the true monster he keeps wrapped up underneath his facade of duty.
I thought Cassian’s admission that the only thing special about him is luck and it was going to run out was great. It doesn’t wink at the audience for knowing his fate, but he’s been saved by providence one too many times.
Bix’s choice was good. Not exactly out of the blue but surprising how they didn’t go with fridging her to keep Cassian fighting.
Mon’s speech was directly to the audience and so fitting for our times. It’s too bad that the people who really need to hear it probably won’t see the parallel.
Overall it’s solid. There are still three episodes left and like S1, it just keeps getting better as it goes along. I don’t know if it can to S1. That’s a really high bar, but this is still some of the best Star Wars I’ve seen in a long time.
Going forward:
- I’m not expecting any resolution to his missing sister. Sometimes life is just like that.
- I expect Luthen to die. And somehow it feels like it must be by Cassian’s hand or maybe suicide, but that feels too neat. Hopefully I’ll be surprised.
- I don’t expect Kleya to make it.
- I do expect Vel to.
- I think Dedra will live.
- I think Partagas will not.
- Really excited for more K-2SO.
- During the final arc, there’s a farm boy on Tattooine begging his uncle to let him go to the Imperial Academy. Just interesting to juxtapose, I think.
Syril’s arc is an interesting one. He always genuinely believed that the Empire was necessary and even good, bringing order and a kind of draconian but honest justice to the galaxy. To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
I think seeing Andor was rage and lashing out at the man who set him on the path to losing his religion, as it were. I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it, and with a slightly different turn of events you could almost see him becoming a vociferous rebel, no zealot like the convert.
Overall, this was definitely the best arc of the three, but it needed the first two to land how it did. I also appreciate the intelligent use of the setting and lore and foreshadowing to make it all hit that much harder. “The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
Syril’s arc is an interesting one. He always genuinely believed that the Empire was necessary and even good, bringing order and a kind of draconian but honest justice to the galaxy. To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
Happens throughout history, and by the time these kind of characters find out it may be too late
I think seeing Andor was rage and lashing out at the man who set him on the path to losing his religion, as it were.
It’s partially that, but it’s also a little spark of hope in Syril after having his whole world ripped away.
Remember, he believed he was sent to Ghorman to root out outside agitators. He thought his ISB believed people like Andor were active with the Ghorman Front, and that his mission was to hunt down and expose them. Then he had the realization that was a lie the whole time. That, really, he, Syril, was the outside agitator. That he had been played by both the ISB and his own girlfriend into astro-turfing the Ghorman Front into something militant enough to enable the genocide of Ghorman. He has his entire world shattered.
Then he saw Andor in the crowd. That was a sign that his whole mission hadn’t been a front. There really were outside Rebel agitators. Not only that, but it was the very guy Syril had been so dogmatically chasing and hunting for so long. Like you said, Andor was the man that set Syril on the path that inevitably let him to Ghorman. Now it turns out (as Syril is suddenly believing) that Andor was also the person he was hunting on Ghorman this whole time. In Syril’s mind, he’s now realizing that Andor has been at the center of everything important (in Syril’s mind) he’s ever done in his life. That’s why the “who are you?” line is such a gut-punch. He’s obsessing over Andor. He built his whole ideology and world-view around the myth of Andor (and people like Andor) Syril kept in his head. Only to learn this guy doesn’t even remember him?
I think Syril’s rage and attack on Andor was Syril trying to redeem himself in some way. Like, if I can just bring in proof that this outside Rebel agitator really was here, that the Ghorman Front really always was the militant force the Empire is now making them out to be, that Syril could convince at least himself that he wasn’t so directly responsible in their genocide.
To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
That’s a good point. I think that’s why his veil slipped. He was so shook, he had nothing in the moment but rage and instinct. I thought he knew he was playing double-agent all along, but it seems to have been more complex than that. He wasn’t out to fuck the Ghormans, just catch the insurgency that would come to stoke the fires of rebellion.
I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it
Agree 100%. So well played. That moment was huge. “Who are you?” That question in that moment was devastating. His hated nemesis didn’t even know who he was. And I think he didn’t have a good answer to that question at all. Who was he? What did he stand for? Why was Cassian even his enemy? You could see all of that in that moment. What an incredible feat of acting and direction. So subtle, but it told an entire story in a second. Alas, a second was all he had.
“The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
That was interesting. “Sometimes it even works.” We’ve never seen the force fall before except when it was someone stretching out to learn new abilities or maybe when they were fatigued and unfocused. But that wasn’t the experience she was describing. I’m going to assume she was just an untrained force sensitive who never learned the focus Jedi acquire to make their use of the force more reliable. But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seemed to me like the “force healer” could tell Andor’s fate, stressing he is a messenger. Maybe she could see the importance in him to retrieve and deliver the death star plans?
But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
I think we’ve seen hints of it. Chirrut Îmwe in Rogue One is in the same vein. Clearly force sensitive, but untrained. The lesbian cult in Acolyte has more training and focus, but clearly not Jedi or Sith. We also see the little kid at the end of TLJ who uses the Force to levitate something, but isn’t trained.
Chirrut is a good example. And you’re right about those other examples except I see the lesbian cult as an alternative to Jedi/Sith with their own training and disciple. So what really stands out to me is that this older woman grew up in the era of the Jedi.
And the Jedi find force users. They even knew about the secretive cult but chose not to act until there were children that needed training. So what is her story that she is so untrained? That’s what I’m curious about. Is there a large untapped well of force sensitive out there even during that time? (But yes, Chirrut raises the same question. The answer seems to be yes.)
I think this is more getting at the expansion (reversion?) of the lore we saw in Ahsoka with regards to Sabine Wren. Its not that there only certain select people are capable of using the Force. Everyone is connected to the Force. Everyone has the potential to use it, but you have to have the right mindset/focus to do so. For some, those we call Force-sensitive, that just naturally comes more easily to them. For others, they have to train and work at it.
I think of it like making music or drawing. Everyone has the potential to make music, but some people are just naturally more inclined towards it. Some people can just pick up an instrument for the first time and play it well without practice or training. Others can still learn to make very good music, but they have to train and practice a lot. An elite music school could train anyone, but they’re going to seek out more naturally gifted people.
I’m guessing this Force healer (like Sabine) is in that latter camp. She doesn’t have a natural aptitude for the Force like Luke or Obi-Wan. But she learned how to tap into a certain aspect of it to help heal.
That’s a cool take.
And to be honest, it always made sense that everyone should have a connection to the force.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
There’s nothing there about the force belonging to the Jedi. I think Luke said as much in TLJ.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
That’s why I think this is more of a reversion of the lore than a change or expansion. In the OT, there’s never any suggestion that only Force sensitive people can use the Force. People, including Luke and Anakin, are described as being “strong with the Force,” but that implies that others are weak with the Force.
It was the Legends EU which really created the idea that only certain people born with an innate connection had the ability to use the Force at all. Within this framing, the vast majority of people in the galaxy are simply not Force-sensitive and will never have the ability to use the Force. Among those who are Force-sensitive, the degree to which one can use the Force depends on your innately born connection to it. So someone like Luke or Anakin had very little (if any) upper limit to what they could do with the Force because they had a very strong connection. While others (like Tionne, one of Luke’s earliest students in Legends) had a very weak connection to the Force, but were still Force-sensitive in a way someone like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian never could be.
I don’t believe this is the lore that Lucas ever intended for the Force. I believe his intention was what I described above: anyone can use it with proper training, but some have a better natural inclination.
No discussion, nothing but holy shit.
That extraction was amazing peak Andor in my book. Tension, excitement, we knew what would happen but not how, and it did perfectly.
That was so good. The driver being brushed off by ISB and also mocked by Mon for his ineptitude at being a spy, was refreshing they didn’t try to make him into a hero and had Andor kill him in cold blood. Maybe I missed it, but how’d Andor sneak a gun in to the senate?
I haven’t made it through the whole arc yet, will post my thoughts when I do.
I’m just here to ask, why are the discussion posts of the previous arcs being removed?
Finished episode 8 right now: masterpiece.
<Episode 8 spoilers>
Never seen a manipulated crowd action so clear AND enticing on screen as in this episode.
And I know I was meant to, but DAMN! that “Who are you?” made me feel sorry for Cyril. Also the final shot of the mother watching the Imperial narrative on TV together with her friends hits so hard, especially being someone living abroad without TV since 20 years and seeing my mother doing just that in front of TV news every time I am back visiting.
I will continue in one hour with my opinion on Episode 9.
From Navishare to Palmo Square, Ghorman will be free.
Definitely not directly inspired by current events, but damn does Episode 8 perfectly mirror what’s going on. I really hope that more people watch it and make the same connection.
Lonni is putting in so much thankless work, it took me a bit to realize that “Supervisor Jung” is him, and he put the mole in Bail’s cell and reported to Luthen that they were compromised. How long was she with them? Was she always meant to be a mole for the ISB, or for Luthen to keep tabs on other rebel cells?
I believe that both Syril and Kloris were so close to having a change of heart, but at this point, there isn’t time for second chances. Syril watched firsthand what he was really doing on Ghorman, and his entire view was warped. That is, until he saw Cassian. His reaction might be because he was aiming at Dedra, simple revenge for ruining his life, or because he actually found the outside rebels he was working to bait, and he was desperately trying to rationalize his involvement in the genocide.
“Who are you?” was such a brutal end, he finally realized that he was just a cog in the machine. Reminds me of Gorst’s death last week.
Dedra flinching in fear when confronted about what they’re actually doing, and hesitating to order the massacre without knowing that Syril is safe, or because she’s the one who has to pull the trigger, I still don’t think she’s going to turn. We’ve seen a lot of symbolism in the collars, and she tries and fails to open hers after the fact.
I was initially surprised when Mon flinched at every shot Cassian took, then I remembered that she hasn’t actually been on the front lines yet. But as sheltered as she was, she really did sacrifice everything at this point: Her family, her childhood friend, her life on Coruscant and in the Senate, all gone for the cause. I watched S3E18 of Rebels after, and her second speech on the Ghost doesn’t feel weak anymore, it feels like a continuation of the first speech at Palpatine and the Senate, this time to rally the rebels. She had a really long day, and still had to escape Pryce and Thrawn afterwards lol
Bix got a fate worse than death, where she feels forced to choose for Cassian, and she waits only for him to never return. I wonder if she gets to know what he did for the rebellion.
Wow I rambled on for a while, again please don’t remove this thread next week lol
Am I the only one for whom the Force healer bit didn’t really work well? I’m just rubbed the wrong way by some Force-connected character talking about Cassian having some pre-ordained purpose. I prefer Cassian to be some regular guy who stood up to fight than the Special Boy selected by Space Magic.
Otherwise, this was amazing. The Ghorman massacre was so well done. My adrenaline was pumping the entire in the lead up to, during, and the escape from Mon Mothma’s speech. The hotel clerk delivering the “Rebellions are built on hope line” was perfect, and Cassian giving that line to Jyn in Rogue One now has so much more impact. Also, the line in Rogue One about the Senate being told Jeddha was a mining disaster has so much more significance after seeing Ghorman.
Syril’s death was the most satisfying fascist death since Inglorious Bastards. He had EVERYTHING ripped away from him. He realized that he WAS the outside agitator he thought he was trying to hunt the whole time. He learned his girlfriend knew they were setting up a genocide the entire time and was just using him. He learned the Empire is exactly as evil as he had always denied it was. He was a True Believer in the Empire in every sense of the words and had that true belief ripped away from him. HE personally played one of the largest roles in making the genocide happen. Then he finally found Andor, who he had been obsessing about for YEARS. Then the “who are you?” gut punch right before that fascist fuck got got. Chef’s Kiss Couldn’t have happened to a worse fellow.
I hope we get more Saw in the final arc.
![[Discussion/Spoilers] Andor Season 2 - Chapter III](https://media.piefed.social/posts/dl/qq/dlqqzq2glURgu9W.jpg){kind=link}