I enjoyed the episodes overall. Well written. The Ghorman massacre was well done. Completely believable down to using green, inexperienced troops, knowing they panic of a situation broke out.
Syril’s reaction to finding out what Dedra was doing was brutal and shocking. I was surprised how she just brushed it off. It revealed the true monster he keeps wrapped up underneath his facade of duty.
I thought Cassian’s admission that the only thing special about him is luck and it was going to run out was great. It doesn’t wink at the audience for knowing his fate, but he’s been saved by providence one too many times.
Bix’s choice was good. Not exactly out of the blue but surprising how they didn’t go with fridging her to keep Cassian fighting.
Mon’s speech was directly to the audience and so fitting for our times. It’s too bad that the people who really need to hear it probably won’t see the parallel.
Overall it’s solid. There are still three episodes left and like S1, it just keeps getting better as it goes along. I don’t know if it can to S1. That’s a really high bar, but this is still some of the best Star Wars I’ve seen in a long time.
Going forward:
I’m not expecting any resolution to his missing sister. Sometimes life is just like that.
I expect Luthen to die. And somehow it feels like it must be by Cassian’s hand or maybe suicide, but that feels too neat. Hopefully I’ll be surprised.
I don’t expect Kleya to make it.
I do expect Vel to.
I think Dedra will live.
I think Partagas will not.
Really excited for more K-2SO.
During the final arc, there’s a farm boy on Tattooine begging his uncle to let him go to the Imperial Academy. Just interesting to juxtapose, I think.
Syril’s arc is an interesting one. He always genuinely believed that the Empire was necessary and even good, bringing order and a kind of draconian but honest justice to the galaxy. To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
I think seeing Andor was rage and lashing out at the man who set him on the path to losing his religion, as it were. I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it, and with a slightly different turn of events you could almost see him becoming a vociferous rebel, no zealot like the convert.
Overall, this was definitely the best arc of the three, but it needed the first two to land how it did. I also appreciate the intelligent use of the setting and lore and foreshadowing to make it all hit that much harder. “The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
I think seeing Andor was rage and lashing out at the man who set him on the path to losing his religion, as it were.
It’s partially that, but it’s also a little spark of hope in Syril after having his whole world ripped away.
Remember, he believed he was sent to Ghorman to root out outside agitators. He thought his ISB believed people like Andor were active with the Ghorman Front, and that his mission was to hunt down and expose them. Then he had the realization that was a lie the whole time. That, really, he, Syril, was the outside agitator. That he had been played by both the ISB and his own girlfriend into astro-turfing the Ghorman Front into something militant enough to enable the genocide of Ghorman. He has his entire world shattered.
Then he saw Andor in the crowd. That was a sign that his whole mission hadn’t been a front. There really were outside Rebel agitators. Not only that, but it was the very guy Syril had been so dogmatically chasing and hunting for so long. Like you said, Andor was the man that set Syril on the path that inevitably let him to Ghorman. Now it turns out (as Syril is suddenly believing) that Andor was also the person he was hunting on Ghorman this whole time. In Syril’s mind, he’s now realizing that Andor has been at the center of everything important (in Syril’s mind) he’s ever done in his life. That’s why the “who are you?” line is such a gut-punch. He’s obsessing over Andor. He built his whole ideology and world-view around the myth of Andor (and people like Andor) Syril kept in his head. Only to learn this guy doesn’t even remember him?
I think Syril’s rage and attack on Andor was Syril trying to redeem himself in some way. Like, if I can just bring in proof that this outside Rebel agitator really was here, that the Ghorman Front really always was the militant force the Empire is now making them out to be, that Syril could convince at least himself that he wasn’t so directly responsible in their genocide.
To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
That’s a good point. I think that’s why his veil slipped. He was so shook, he had nothing in the moment but rage and instinct. I thought he knew he was playing double-agent all along, but it seems to have been more complex than that. He wasn’t out to fuck the Ghormans, just catch the insurgency that would come to stoke the fires of rebellion.
I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it
Agree 100%. So well played. That moment was huge. “Who are you?” That question in that moment was devastating. His hated nemesis didn’t even know who he was. And I think he didn’t have a good answer to that question at all. Who was he? What did he stand for? Why was Cassian even his enemy? You could see all of that in that moment. What an incredible feat of acting and direction. So subtle, but it told an entire story in a second. Alas, a second was all he had.
“The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
That was interesting. “Sometimes it even works.” We’ve never seen the force fall before except when it was someone stretching out to learn new abilities or maybe when they were fatigued and unfocused. But that wasn’t the experience she was describing. I’m going to assume she was just an untrained force sensitive who never learned the focus Jedi acquire to make their use of the force more reliable. But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
I think we’ve seen hints of it. Chirrut Îmwe in Rogue One is in the same vein. Clearly force sensitive, but untrained. The lesbian cult in Acolyte has more training and focus, but clearly not Jedi or Sith. We also see the little kid at the end of TLJ who uses the Force to levitate something, but isn’t trained.
Chirrut is a good example. And you’re right about those other examples except I see the lesbian cult as an alternative to Jedi/Sith with their own training and disciple. So what really stands out to me is that this older woman grew up in the era of the Jedi.
And the Jedi find force users. They even knew about the secretive cult but chose not to act until there were children that needed training. So what is her story that she is so untrained? That’s what I’m curious about. Is there a large untapped well of force sensitive out there even during that time? (But yes, Chirrut raises the same question. The answer seems to be yes.)
I think this is more getting at the expansion (reversion?) of the lore we saw in Ahsoka with regards to Sabine Wren. Its not that there only certain select people are capable of using the Force. Everyone is connected to the Force. Everyone has the potential to use it, but you have to have the right mindset/focus to do so. For some, those we call Force-sensitive, that just naturally comes more easily to them. For others, they have to train and work at it.
I think of it like making music or drawing. Everyone has the potential to make music, but some people are just naturally more inclined towards it. Some people can just pick up an instrument for the first time and play it well without practice or training. Others can still learn to make very good music, but they have to train and practice a lot. An elite music school could train anyone, but they’re going to seek out more naturally gifted people.
I’m guessing this Force healer (like Sabine) is in that latter camp. She doesn’t have a natural aptitude for the Force like Luke or Obi-Wan. But she learned how to tap into a certain aspect of it to help heal.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
That’s why I think this is more of a reversion of the lore than a change or expansion. In the OT, there’s never any suggestion that only Force sensitive people can use the Force. People, including Luke and Anakin, are described as being “strong with the Force,” but that implies that others are weak with the Force.
It was the Legends EU which really created the idea that only certain people born with an innate connection had the ability to use the Force at all. Within this framing, the vast majority of people in the galaxy are simply not Force-sensitive and will never have the ability to use the Force. Among those who are Force-sensitive, the degree to which one can use the Force depends on your innately born connection to it. So someone like Luke or Anakin had very little (if any) upper limit to what they could do with the Force because they had a very strong connection. While others (like Tionne, one of Luke’s earliest students in Legends) had a very weak connection to the Force, but were still Force-sensitive in a way someone like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian never could be.
I don’t believe this is the lore that Lucas ever intended for the Force. I believe his intention was what I described above: anyone can use it with proper training, but some have a better natural inclination.
Yeah and then we’re back to… cough midichlorian count choke as a measure of how strong someone is with the force and I suppose as a criteria for who gets Jedi training and who doesn’t.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seemed to me like the “force healer” could tell Andor’s fate, stressing he is a messenger. Maybe she could see the importance in him to retrieve and deliver the death star plans?
Syril’s arc is an interesting one. He always genuinely believed that the Empire was necessary and even good, bringing order and a kind of draconian but honest justice to the galaxy. To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
Happens throughout history, and by the time these kind of characters find out it may be too late
![[Discussion/Spoilers] Andor Season 2 - Chapter III](https://media.piefed.social/posts/dl/qq/dlqqzq2glURgu9W.jpg){kind=link}
I enjoyed the episodes overall. Well written. The Ghorman massacre was well done. Completely believable down to using green, inexperienced troops, knowing they panic of a situation broke out.
Syril’s reaction to finding out what Dedra was doing was brutal and shocking. I was surprised how she just brushed it off. It revealed the true monster he keeps wrapped up underneath his facade of duty.
I thought Cassian’s admission that the only thing special about him is luck and it was going to run out was great. It doesn’t wink at the audience for knowing his fate, but he’s been saved by providence one too many times.
Bix’s choice was good. Not exactly out of the blue but surprising how they didn’t go with fridging her to keep Cassian fighting.
Mon’s speech was directly to the audience and so fitting for our times. It’s too bad that the people who really need to hear it probably won’t see the parallel.
Overall it’s solid. There are still three episodes left and like S1, it just keeps getting better as it goes along. I don’t know if it can to S1. That’s a really high bar, but this is still some of the best Star Wars I’ve seen in a long time.
Going forward:
Syril’s arc is an interesting one. He always genuinely believed that the Empire was necessary and even good, bringing order and a kind of draconian but honest justice to the galaxy. To be confronted with that being made a lie, and him as the link, must have been quite the mind-fuck.
I think seeing Andor was rage and lashing out at the man who set him on the path to losing his religion, as it were. I think the little delay when he was going to shoot Cassian (before, well, that happened) had a lot packed into it, and with a slightly different turn of events you could almost see him becoming a vociferous rebel, no zealot like the convert.
Overall, this was definitely the best arc of the three, but it needed the first two to land how it did. I also appreciate the intelligent use of the setting and lore and foreshadowing to make it all hit that much harder. “The Force” even made an appearance, sort of.
It’s partially that, but it’s also a little spark of hope in Syril after having his whole world ripped away.
Remember, he believed he was sent to Ghorman to root out outside agitators. He thought his ISB believed people like Andor were active with the Ghorman Front, and that his mission was to hunt down and expose them. Then he had the realization that was a lie the whole time. That, really, he, Syril, was the outside agitator. That he had been played by both the ISB and his own girlfriend into astro-turfing the Ghorman Front into something militant enough to enable the genocide of Ghorman. He has his entire world shattered.
Then he saw Andor in the crowd. That was a sign that his whole mission hadn’t been a front. There really were outside Rebel agitators. Not only that, but it was the very guy Syril had been so dogmatically chasing and hunting for so long. Like you said, Andor was the man that set Syril on the path that inevitably let him to Ghorman. Now it turns out (as Syril is suddenly believing) that Andor was also the person he was hunting on Ghorman this whole time. In Syril’s mind, he’s now realizing that Andor has been at the center of everything important (in Syril’s mind) he’s ever done in his life. That’s why the “who are you?” line is such a gut-punch. He’s obsessing over Andor. He built his whole ideology and world-view around the myth of Andor (and people like Andor) Syril kept in his head. Only to learn this guy doesn’t even remember him?
I think Syril’s rage and attack on Andor was Syril trying to redeem himself in some way. Like, if I can just bring in proof that this outside Rebel agitator really was here, that the Ghorman Front really always was the militant force the Empire is now making them out to be, that Syril could convince at least himself that he wasn’t so directly responsible in their genocide.
That’s a good point. I think that’s why his veil slipped. He was so shook, he had nothing in the moment but rage and instinct. I thought he knew he was playing double-agent all along, but it seems to have been more complex than that. He wasn’t out to fuck the Ghormans, just catch the insurgency that would come to stoke the fires of rebellion.
Agree 100%. So well played. That moment was huge. “Who are you?” That question in that moment was devastating. His hated nemesis didn’t even know who he was. And I think he didn’t have a good answer to that question at all. Who was he? What did he stand for? Why was Cassian even his enemy? You could see all of that in that moment. What an incredible feat of acting and direction. So subtle, but it told an entire story in a second. Alas, a second was all he had.
That was interesting. “Sometimes it even works.” We’ve never seen the force fall before except when it was someone stretching out to learn new abilities or maybe when they were fatigued and unfocused. But that wasn’t the experience she was describing. I’m going to assume she was just an untrained force sensitive who never learned the focus Jedi acquire to make their use of the force more reliable. But it’s a side of the force we haven’t really seen much of.
I think we’ve seen hints of it. Chirrut Îmwe in Rogue One is in the same vein. Clearly force sensitive, but untrained. The lesbian cult in Acolyte has more training and focus, but clearly not Jedi or Sith. We also see the little kid at the end of TLJ who uses the Force to levitate something, but isn’t trained.
Chirrut is a good example. And you’re right about those other examples except I see the lesbian cult as an alternative to Jedi/Sith with their own training and disciple. So what really stands out to me is that this older woman grew up in the era of the Jedi.
And the Jedi find force users. They even knew about the secretive cult but chose not to act until there were children that needed training. So what is her story that she is so untrained? That’s what I’m curious about. Is there a large untapped well of force sensitive out there even during that time? (But yes, Chirrut raises the same question. The answer seems to be yes.)
I think this is more getting at the expansion (reversion?) of the lore we saw in Ahsoka with regards to Sabine Wren. Its not that there only certain select people are capable of using the Force. Everyone is connected to the Force. Everyone has the potential to use it, but you have to have the right mindset/focus to do so. For some, those we call Force-sensitive, that just naturally comes more easily to them. For others, they have to train and work at it.
I think of it like making music or drawing. Everyone has the potential to make music, but some people are just naturally more inclined towards it. Some people can just pick up an instrument for the first time and play it well without practice or training. Others can still learn to make very good music, but they have to train and practice a lot. An elite music school could train anyone, but they’re going to seek out more naturally gifted people.
I’m guessing this Force healer (like Sabine) is in that latter camp. She doesn’t have a natural aptitude for the Force like Luke or Obi-Wan. But she learned how to tap into a certain aspect of it to help heal.
That’s a cool take.
And to be honest, it always made sense that everyone should have a connection to the force.
“It is an energy field made of all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together.” —Obi-wan Kenobi, A New Hope
There’s nothing there about the force belonging to the Jedi. I think Luke said as much in TLJ.
That’s why I think this is more of a reversion of the lore than a change or expansion. In the OT, there’s never any suggestion that only Force sensitive people can use the Force. People, including Luke and Anakin, are described as being “strong with the Force,” but that implies that others are weak with the Force.
It was the Legends EU which really created the idea that only certain people born with an innate connection had the ability to use the Force at all. Within this framing, the vast majority of people in the galaxy are simply not Force-sensitive and will never have the ability to use the Force. Among those who are Force-sensitive, the degree to which one can use the Force depends on your innately born connection to it. So someone like Luke or Anakin had very little (if any) upper limit to what they could do with the Force because they had a very strong connection. While others (like Tionne, one of Luke’s earliest students in Legends) had a very weak connection to the Force, but were still Force-sensitive in a way someone like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian never could be.
I don’t believe this is the lore that Lucas ever intended for the Force. I believe his intention was what I described above: anyone can use it with proper training, but some have a better natural inclination.
Yeah and then we’re back to… cough midichlorian count choke as a measure of how strong someone is with the force and I suppose as a criteria for who gets Jedi training and who doesn’t.
I don’t like it… but I’ll accept it I suppose.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seemed to me like the “force healer” could tell Andor’s fate, stressing he is a messenger. Maybe she could see the importance in him to retrieve and deliver the death star plans?
Happens throughout history, and by the time these kind of characters find out it may be too late