• naeap@sopuli.xyz
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      8 days ago

      Yeah, because authoritarian systems always fail, without exception

      The only real solution is to remove authority and bring society to adult level - better the other way round though.

    • Spectre@lemmy.mlOP
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      8 days ago

      Marxism is anti-utopian, it’s based on analyzing how societies evolve over time. What is deemed “authoritarianism” is the need for the proletariat to exert its control over the bourgeoisie, rather than the reverse, yet bourgeois rule is more authoritarian.

      @naeap@sopuli.xyz

      • Gsus4@mander.xyz
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        8 days ago

        That’s fine in theory, until the party starts calling everything it sees as a potential opposition or threat to itself and any attempts to adapt to the times “burgeois”.

        Until you guys create a clear set of rules to permit gradual evolution, dissenting voices, protecting the rights of the individual and political opposition, while preventing things like cult of personality, nobody is getting on that ride again.

        (oh wait, there is another ride like that but for the nation instead of the proletariat, it’s called fascism…and everybody is getting on it…again)

        • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
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          8 days ago

          Yes, because rule by the bourgeois will always tend towards a more authoritarian level than Socialism.

        • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          Are you counting defensive wars against capitalist colonizers, fascist invasions, and uprisings against oppressive puppet regimes and tyrants?

          • bastion@feddit.nl
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            7 days ago

            Always the victim. Get back to your struggle sessions, and hope the target isn’t you.

            • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
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              7 days ago

              Are you counting defensive wars against capitalist colonizers, fascist invasions, and uprisings against oppressive puppet regimes and tyrants?

              • bastion@feddit.nl
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                7 days ago

                I’m sure you’re definition is probably broad enough that that my concept might include some of the wars you’d discount. …but not all.

                in any case, even if I narrowed it down significantly, there’d be enough to disprove “communism is incompatible with war”.

                Rather, you could say “in theory, communism is incompatible with war, even though it isn’t a magical fix for the underlying tendencies and in some cases needs that drive war.”

                • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
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                  7 days ago

                  Wars happen for a number of reasons, and there should be a distinction between offensive and defensive wars.

                  In theory, capitalism is incompatible with war as it is assumed to be a system of fair exchange. Many economists and philosophers followed Ayn Rand in promoting this idea. Obviously it is NOT such a system, and is instead a relentless amoral pursuit of profit and value extraction, and will cheerfully use war to obtain resources while simultaneously extracting value via defense industry stocks. It also uses war to crush any opposed ideologies, which is censorship in its most violent form.

                  I am not familiar with how communism or socialism is compatible with war outside of Rand’s claim that socialism consumes resources leading to demand for more which must be taken from neighbors rather than using a system of free and fair exchange.

                  • 5too@lemmy.world
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                    7 days ago

                    there should be a distinction between offensive and defensive wars.

                    …that difference is entirely which side of the battle line you’re on…