What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
Ml was always pro china pro russia nothing new. I am more worried about the rise of zionism apologists
Tankies
There are communists on Lemmy, that isn’t surprising. The lead devs are Marxist-Leninists.
Yes it’s a disinformation campaign. It’s been non-stop since 2016, mate.
And this is the obvious low hanging fruit stuff. The smart ones are subtle and have long lost histories. Or are actual westerners they just pay.
I wish I was getting paid to post, Pres Xi pls hook a girl up
Western liberals literally cannot imagine people actually disagreeing with them without turning into McCarthy
You actually believe that real governments pay real money for people to post here on lemmy?
I wish I got paid to be an internet communist, that would be a nice chunk of extra money
It’s been non-stop since 2016, mate.
BlueAnonsense.
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Matt Taibbi: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Aaron Maté: Under Trump, the CIA is still covering up its Russiagate fraud
- Matt Taibbi: Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures Thanks to explosive new document releases, the Russiagate hoax is now exposed, commencing a new era that will be about accountability for the guilty
- Matt Taibbi: No Doubt Left: Russiagate Was a Cover-Up
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away The cynical con the Democratic Party and the F.B.I. carried out to falsely portray Donald Trump as a puppet of the Kremlin worked, and continues to work, because it is what those who detest Trump want to believe.
Your instance is probably one of the few who still federated with lemmygrad and hexbear as you described both these instances to a T. You can either block these instances or create an account with one of the numerous instances that have defederated from these absurd groups.
And lemmy.ml - as evidenced by the comments here.
also a large campaigning part of lemmy users parrot russia’s world view constantly using single issues as an excuse or the braver ones are openly anti-west
This person supports Israel’s genocide of Gaza, btw.
You’re welcome to leave if you just want yet another pro-West nationalist circle jerk
ah the true essence of .ml federation approach leaking out
Mate, you are in a .ml com
You can either block these instances
I’m not sure it works. I block hexbear and I still see comments from it 🤔
Individual blocks work instead.
I just checked. toast.ooo is federated with lemmygrad and hexbear. That’s probably why OP is seeing tankie posts.
Got to keep that echo chamber sealed
Funny you say that considering hexbear had themselves sealed off from everyone else for several years.
I have no issue with people holding opposing viewpoints or perspectives, but I do have an issue with people acting as little more than mouthpieces for some authoritarian politicians. I see little difference between them and the MAGA sycophants who talk about the “great” things Donald Trump is doing.
Funny you say that considering hexbear had themselves sealed off from everyone else for several years.
No, they didn’t.
I have no issue with people holding opposing viewpoints or perspectives, but I do have an issue with people acting as little more than mouthpieces for some authoritarian politicians. I see little difference between them and the MAGA sycophants who talk about the “great” things Donald Trump is doing.
So you do actually have issues with opposing viewpoints.
Hexbear didn’t “have themselves sealed off,” r/chapotraphouse was banned for supporting John Brown, and then the sub went off and made chapo.chat, later Hexbear.net, as its own thing. Years later, they worked to integrate with Lemmy, and then the anti-communist instances like Lemmy.world defederated before Hexbear even started federating with them.
The fact that you fail to see a difference between MAGA and communists is more of a self-own than anything. Communists have strong, resolute views based on reading theory and (ideally) organizing in the real world and advocate for liberation of all peoples.
Hexbear didn’t "have themselves sealed off,
the sub went off and made chapo.chat, later Hexbear.net, as its own thing. Years later, they worked to integrate with Lemmy
So they went off and “made their own thing for years” but that doesn’t describe an echo chamber?
Instances didnt defederate from them for being communist. Lemmy.ml is run by communists and we’re obviously interacting now, no? They defederated from these groups because they’re obnoxious and disengenuous. They act like MAGA sycophants cosplaying as communists.
Communists can’t really create echo chambers, at least not in the west, because liberalism is inescapable in day to day life. Liberals can create echo-chambers (and do), because day to day life in the west is very pro-liberalism. Hexbear didn’t “seal themselves off,” they created a space where they wouldn’t be censored by liberals and fascists.
As for Lemmy.ml, it’s run by communists, but is also the main dev instance, so there’s a lot of instances that don’t want to fully isolate from the devs. That’s why I use it, actually, so I both don’t get censored for being a communist but can also speak with liberals that otherwise can’t see Hexbear.net or Lemmygrad.ml.
As for why Hexbear was defederated, Lemmy.world makes it clear that it’s an ideological incompatability:
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to “dismantle western propaganda” and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
So yes, it was because Lemmy.world is anti-communist. Same with sh.itjust.works. It isn’t because of holding strong beliefs in communism, but because of the incompatability of communism with instances like Lemmy.world.
Communists can’t really create echo chambers, at least not in the west, because liberalism is inescapable in day to day life.
🙄
We’re not talking about “the west” we’re talking about websites that transcend borders. This is disingenuous nonsense.
Liberals can create echo-chambers (and do), because day to day life in the west is very pro-liberalism.
Citation needed.
As for why Hexbear was defederated, Lemmy.world makes it clear that it’s an ideological incompatability:
Why have you written this information without providing a source for it? Is it because it was copied from directly inside said echo-chamber? Why focus solely on lemmy.world when they’re just one of many instances to defederate from them? More disingenuous nonsense.
Gee lets see you’re speaking about liberal propaganda, how terrible NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank are, how there’s an “imperial order” (the deep state) secretly running things behind the scenes and you still want to sit here claiming you don’t sound exactly like a MAGA Republican cosplaying as a communist.
It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
So dismantle and destroy modern society with no thought about what comes after? You’d think people who claim to be so deep into communism would have some sort of vision or idea for the world they want to create based on the principles of communism, yet here you admit there is no vision other than ‘destroying liberals’ and ‘destroying the west.’ See how quickly the facade of ‘communism’ falls apart under the slightest scrutiny?
All you’re left with is fascist messaging echoing the fascist propaganda coming from people like Trump, Putin, and Netanyahu. These ideas can’t stand on their own which is why hexbear users love to brigade posts, argue in bad faith, and derail every discussion with absurd memes and ad hominem attacks once anyone pokes the slightest hole in their logic because then they dont have to defend and indefensible position.
You’re simply using “communism” as a shield to both create a built-in ‘victim’ defense and to lure in naive new users to brainwash. This is no different than Christians claiming people are attacking them for having “Christian beliefs” while they try to remove rights to LGBT individuals. Hexbear literally uses this same exact tactic by pretending to be pro-LGBT while supporting the Trump and Putin regime who has or is moving toward making it a crime to be LGBT. Sorry, but adding an option to include your pronouns next to your username while championing a dictator who imprisons people for being LGBT and legally mandates ‘conversion therapy’ doesn’t make you guys “pro-LGBT.” You’re just targeting marginalized people to lure them into your cult to build numbers. Its no different than the QAnon people, the Manoshpere people, MAGA, or any other modern cult.
Speaking of echo chambers, that straw man rant came from the halls of your mind palace.
Websites transcend borders, sure, but the China hate is largely western.
I don’t think you need a citation to know that capitalism is the dominant economic structure in the west, and that therefore liberalism is dominant.
Here’s the source, I copied exactly from Lemmy.world’s admins. You could do 5 seconds of searching or waste all that time trying to call me out for some reason.
Marxist-Leninists are against imperialism, and by extension NATO and the IMF. You just added “deep state” and pretended that made it MAGA, lmao. Just say you don’t know any communists nor what communists advocate for.
As for dismantling imperialism, obviously that’s one step, the other step is socialist revolution and replacement with an economy run collectively. This is incredibly obvious to anyone even tangentially familiar with communist theory. There isn’t a “facade of communism,” the only “facade” is the idea that you should be taken seriously.
No, you don’t have fascism, you have fanfiction. You fundamentally have no clue what communists want, why, or how we want to get there. Hexbear isn’t supporting Trump, and we aren’t “pretending” to be LGBTQ+, I’m pansexual myself.
Fundamentally, you’re an anti-communist that lacks any and all knowledge of communism. Here’s a beginner Marxist-Leninist reading list, and here’s the Party Program for the Party for Socialism and Liberation. Read both. No investigation, no right to speak.
They are really good guys. Ghina has your back and Russia just really enjoys getting fucked up…simply two different flavors of a plethora of diverse wingmen all watching out for you.
Either way, you will be fucked.
Inb4 b&
b&
“bampersand”
beble clef
Lol at “the EU to a lesser degree”
lately
Huh, wonder who that’s for
Because there is an important community of tankies on Lemmy, and admins of some instances are known to delete what they don’t like
In a very simplified answer: China and Russia (as well as Iran) never made any thinly-veiled threats of turning my hometown of Johannesburg into the next Gaza.
Never seen any of this stuff. Not even once.
Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 ran a proxy war in the interim and has failed to complete it’s military objectives after nearly four years of total war?
Russia has over a million casualties.
Is this what winning looks like?
Personally I haven’t seen anything pro-Russia, so I can only comment on pro-China content.
Seems to me like a lot of people are finally realizing most of what they knew about China was American propaganda, and it’s not actually that bad. Though of course, people being polarized as they are, they’re moving from one extreme to the other, and not somewhere in between.
Plus, China has a lot of resources to spend on its own propaganda. This especially affects younger generations, who spend a lot of time on TikTok.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
I’d say it’s quite likely.
China has a lot of resources to spend on its own propaganda. This especially affects younger generations, who spend a lot of time on TikTok.
Got any evidence to back up this assertion?
I’d say it’s quite likely
Or maybe people just disagree with you
So this is the lemmy.ml I’ve heard so much about, huh?
Got any evidence to back up this assertion?
You want me to prove… that China is rich and can afford pretty much everything, including online propaganda…? Hmm, let’s see… I guess the fact it’s the world’s 2nd biggest economy (or 1st if we look at actual productivity and not the USA’s heavily inflated GDP) might be a tiny clue.
Would it really be a shock to anyone if a global superpower spread propaganda to be viewed more positively by people around the world? Russia and the USA do it all the time. Why wouldn’t China?
Or maybe people just disagree with you
I guess people never disagree with you, becuase it looks like it’s the first time you’ve been exposed to an opinion that doesn’t align with yours.
You want me to prove… that China is rich and can afford pretty much everything, including online propaganda…?
No, that’s not what I wanted you to prove, try reading again.
I guess people never disagree with you, becuase it looks like it’s the first time you’ve been exposed to an opinion that doesn’t align with yours.
I’m not the one accusing everyone who disagrees with me of being secret Chinese agents dog.
I guess people never disagree with you, becuase it looks like it’s the first time you’ve been exposed to an opinion that doesn’t align with yours.
imagine telling a communist that they’ve never been exposed to a differing opinion
hey you notice how at no point did you leave your mind palace?
“Well it’s true because I figure it’s true and you’re stupid if you disagree”
Profoundly unserious.
Would it really be a shock to anyone if a global superpower spread propaganda to be viewed more positively by people around the world? Russia and the USA do it all the time. Why wouldn’t China?
Completely reasonable.
I’d say it’s quite likely.
But this isn’t reasonable at all, and it’s what you’re trying to defend.
Lemmy has no value. It’s a waste of resources. Your assertion wasn’t that China is has propaganda. I know they do, there are hundreds of officially disclosed initiatives. Your assertion is that Lemmy users aren’t genuine.
You also implied that TikTok - A platform globally moderated by the the USA - is a hotbed for PR Chinese propaganda, which isn’t reasonable either.
Your assertion is that Lemmy users aren’t genuine.
Good point. I completely forgot the scope of OP’s question was Lemmy specifically. In that case, I’m not sure whether it’s likely that it’s a disinformation campaign or not. I certainly hope it isn’t.
You also implied that TikTok - A platform globally moderated by the the USA - is a hotbed for PR Chinese propaganda, which isn’t reasonable either.
Isn’t it reasonable? There’s a lot of both pro- as well as anti-China content on American platforms. I’d think there’d be at least as much pro-China content on a Chinese platform. There does’t necessarily have to be more of it. I’d say it’s more a matter of young people being vulnerable and TikTok being extremely good at capturing their attention.
I’d think there’d be at least as much pro-China content on a Chinese platform.
There is a lot of Chinese state-sponsored propaganda on TikTok, as well as pro-China speech by unaffiliated users. This is true of TikTok and of YouTube and Twitter. (The state-sponsored propaganda I’m highlighting isn’t particularly insidious, it’s things like student exchange or paid travel bloggers, Chinese news spending budget to create English language content). But you aren’t more likely to come across it on TikTok than western platforms, because China doesn’t control the algorithm. TikTok was forked off a Chinese product, but it’s controlled by Oracle and the USA in terms of tuning and moderation. The Chinese just collect rent.
Now if your angle isn’t that TikTok pushes those things, but just that kids use it and kids are impressionable, then I don’t have any objections with what you’re saying. I haven’t seen any Chinese state-sponsored content that plays well with kids, but I wouldn’t expect to either since my recommendation feed looks different (and I don’t use TikTok).
EU? More like PU.
I saw China take COVID seriously while I was marched off to work to die because my job was “essential” - the US, EU, Canada, it was basically every Western country except New Zealand (which is an island and basically became a bunker nation for billionaires and shouldn’t really count)
I became pro-China after that.
