I see all over Lemmy, people really seem to hate hexbear, and I don’t get it. Can someone explain why most of Lemmy seems to absolutely hate them?
As a leftist, I find them annoying because they make me look like an idiot by association.
They often get described as leftists, but mostly seemed like they were just trolls looking to pick fights. If someone told me they were a false-flag to discredit leftists, I would beleive it.
I think you should visit Hexbear legitimately. They absolutely are leftists, just especially radical and aggressive.
I sincerely doubt there are people reading up on Leftist theory just to troll and discredit leftists.
We’re leftists and our site culture is pretty aggressive. Liberals are predisposed not to like us because of the first one, and we’re especially prone to arguing with them in the comments of their instances because of the second. This means we’re more well known and more disliked than we would be if we stayed in our corner.
I gotta be honest, as I’m reading all the responses by hexbearians(?) in this thread, it just sounds like y’all have a lot of fun lol
50/50 leftists and Russian troll farms or worse, by any charitable outside evaluation.
Certainly, a portion of r/cth’s appeal was that it was openly left and didn’t follow liberal rules of politeness, respect, or decorum
We’re leftists and our site culture is pretty aggressive
I know that would make you feel better, but no, there are plenty of aggressive leftists on this site, and we don’t get singled out, that’s because people don’t hate hexbear because you’re aggressive leftists, but because you’re toxic pro authoritarian tankies (not that there’s any other kind), so not actually leftist at all (hint: if your “communism” has, and you worship and admire a dictator, it’s not communism, same goes for if it has billionaires and prison camps, like your favourite flavoured boot China, or even N. Korea)…
Buncha stinky tankies is what they are. Yes sir!
fuck all these tankies of hexbear!
pls
Lemmy instance with “radical” moderation. Sort of like old SA/goon forums, 4chan etc.
It’s literally the opposite of those unmoderated sites, what the fuck are you talking about?
The admins there are very strict about quickly removing and banning any transphobes, pro-capitalists, nazis etc.
Their strict moderation has odd blind spots though. I just had a look at their front page to see what it’s like these days. They have a news article up since 15 hours that claims France has sent troops to Ukraine, which is just straight up fake news. Apparently allowed to stay up as long as it fits the narrative though.
People are talking about the article and its legitimacy in the comments.
Yes, they do, although the top comment at this point talks about how it’s “literally a declaration of war” and the second to top claims that WW3 has started. You have to dig 3 comment chains down until anyone even questions the article. In any case, I don’t see how that’s relevant to my point about moderation.
Those were not unmoderated. Just radically differently moderated.
And that difference being that they’re not moderated much at all, which results in the aforementioned hate groups taking over.
Interaction with them is toxic.
That’s mostly been lemmy.world libs in my experience
Actually I agree, Lemmy.world tends to attract the Reddit 2 crowd, which is insufferable.
Imagine 8chan, but instead of nazis they are left-wing.
The worst assholes you’ll ever see, but this time they have a class conscience, which makes them 1% better, but still utterly insufferable.
They are rowdy radical leftists, a mix of Anarchists and Marxist-Leninists. Much of Lemmy is more liberal than leftist, and as such disagrees with Hexbear, but the added kicker is that Hexbear is extremely rowdy, garnering an additional layer of separation from the more liberal sides of Lemmy.
It sounds like you’re describing tankies, not leftists.
It used to be called chapo.chat until a poll came up to change the name. IMO keeping it named chapo.chat would be better for name recognition, since Hexbear began in 2020 as a lifeboat from r/ChapoTrapHouse when reddit banned it for supporting John Brown’s violence against slave owners
It’s still Chacha to me, damnit!
Hexbear is a leftist-unity instance of mostly socialists, communists, and anarchists.
Most people on Reddit are liberals (just look at how pro-israel Reddit is right now), so naturally alot of people migrating from Reddit didn’t like it.
Wait, you’re saying “liberal”=“pro-israel”? Isn’t that more of a republican/conservative thing?
Librerals are largely conservative.
Republicans are liberals too, liberal simply means supporter of capitalism.
Though it’s commonly used in the US to exclusively refer to social democrats, social democracy is just a subset of liberalism.
liberal simply means a supporter of capitalism
That’s simply not true. Liberal means being open to other ideas and tolerant of people having other opinions.
Which just means “tolerating” the capitalist exploitation of workers.
It’s why liberals always passively “tolerate” the decay of capitalism into fascism as is what happened in Germany and Italy, and seems to be happening in the US.
Some issues cannot really be culturally divided by a binary political party system.
Yeah, fair. I think that’s why I found associating liberalism with being pro-israel weird.
Conservatives are liberals too, i.e they support private property and capitalism, even if western conservatives like calling anyone not far-right liberals.
The liberals that don’t support israel are left-leaning radlibs, and those are clearly not the majority of Reddit users as the last few months have made clear.
Maybe there happen to be a bunch of pro-israel liberals on Reddit, but I don’t think that means “liberal”=“pro-israel”.
I guess coming from Canada it’s a different perspective since we have the separate Liberal and Conservative parties skewing the definition, and the Liberals, while certainly being pro-capitalism, also support social justice, and are not exactly pro-israel right now.
This, and a lot of liberals are entirely unaware of anything left of social democrats, so they’re genuinely confused by anti-capitalism and anti-imperialism.
This results in democrats accusing HB of being trump supporters, conservatives accusing HB of being liberals, and both accusing them of being paid shills of foreign countries.
Huh, TIL that “liberals” doesn’t include socialists and communists. I always thought of “liberals” and “conservatives” as general terms for left and right.
I’ll be honest, I’m irony poisoned enough to can’t tell if you’re joking or just an American.
But just in case you’re serious, I’ll give a real short crash course on the difference between the left and right - and I mean this is really low brow basic that would get me shit for vulgarizing it so much.
If you wish to abolish the capitalist economic mode of production and establish a socialist economic mode of production, you’re on the left.
If you do not wish to do that, you’re on the right. This is why we - communists - call everyone from social democrats to fascists “Right-ists”. They do not seek to abolish the current form of economic production, but preserve it. Ergo, why we call everyone liberals, for wanting to preserve the liberal market economy.
No, I’m not joking, my confusion stemmed from the fact that those who used those terms always seemed to mean them in the way I described. (Probably mostly Americans who grew up with the two party system)
In Germany - at least in my bubble - we don’t talk about “liberals” vs “conservatives”, the spectrum is more diverse.
Thats the economic take. If we talk about personal freedom and societal values, you’ll end up with different categories, hence labels like “left-liberal” or “left-authoritarian” etc.
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What Exactly is Liberalism? (no, it’s not about being “woke”)
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The Problem With Harm Reduction: Why Liberalism Won’t Solve Anything
Conservatives are conservatives because they’re completely politically illiterate lol; of course they won’t use terms like “liberals” and “socialists” correctly.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
What Exactly is Liberalism? (no, it’s not about being “woke”)
The Problem With Harm Reduction: Why Liberalism Won’t Solve Anything
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
-
That’s only true conversationally in America.
Liberalism fundamentally has an incompatiblity with socialism and communism because it’s fubdamentally rooted in the rights of an individual to own land and/or the means of production, as well as supporting market economies.
This is in stark contrast to workers owning the means of production, or seizing private property for the greater good.
Liberals in other countries tend to be centre right, such as the Australian liberals or a fair amount of European liberals.
There was a similar use in the 17 and 1800s when conservatives were the upper nobility and liberals were the lower nobility and capitalists (this caused problems when the liberals, who used the working class to carry out their revolution, then turned on the working class when their own aims were achieved, since at that point, the interests of the lower nobility+capitalist classes diverged with the working class, which typically left the liberals unable to defend themselves from the forces of reaction. This happened at least 5 different times.).
Today though, conservatives are still liberal.
That’s just all the American regime allows. In reality both of your parties are right-wing and real politics is far broader.
I know, I’m German. Looks like I’ve mostly heard these terms used by Americans.
Yeah no from what I’ve heard, it’s just as bad in Germany, with Die Linke being controlled by social democrats. Which is weird considering East Germany is still in living memory and (I’d hope) your education covering how the nazis rose to power, since the split between liberals and communists is pretty important.
To be clear, the reason people hate them is because they’re aggressively furry and beyond any measure of obnoxious. No matter what the subject of the thread is, they will make it about socialism/communism/anarchism and being a furry.
Let’s say they have no concept of what “conciliation” is
Aka they have no chill
No. Furries are not the problem about hexbear, their wild political takes combined with an often condescending tone are.
For some people it is, for some people it isn’t.
Have you explored why you hate furries? How do you feel about LGBT+ and neurodivergent people?
They’re all fine, and I have diagnosed neurodivergent people in my close friend circle. I’m about to hang out with him for 2 weeks. I don’t hate furries either, I just hate obnoxious people.
Socialist instance bringing up socialism 🤯
I didn’t bring it up, you did
Wait, Reddit is pro-Israel now? I haven’t been there in a while (to be honest, since before this topic escalated) but that surprises me
Default news subs (notably r/worldnews) are controlled by feds so they are at least artificially pro-Israel by just deleting anything remotely critical of it.
A few of the U.K. specific ones are as well. But then there are some subs pro Palestine.
People hate hexbear because they’re always ahead of the curb and are right on the issues plaguing the day.
The problem is, is they only get proven right down the road after everyone forgets about the former issues and get mad at them for the new contemporary issues.
That and hexbear hands down has the best emojies and community on the whole fediverse and all the reddit-brainwashed turbo-nerds short-circuit every time they encounter an genuinely organic community that wasn’t shaped by federal propaganda.
Hexbear is more than a website: She is Athena. She is light itself.
One issue I have with hexbear is that you can’t argue with its users on hexbear itself. Most comments from outsiders are deleted within a day, and most of the users aren’t interested in discussions and simply resort to name calling and personal attacks. The more “sophisticated” ones will tell you to “read theory”. The amount of hexbear users actually capable of producing arguments seems to be very low, at least from my experience.
These issues exist on other instances as well of course, but on hexbear its particularly bad. The only other instances this toxic I have interacted with were lemmygrad and exploding-heads.
deleted comments are complaining about pronouns
Hexbear being based as always
We’re rude, but argue in good faith all the time. Just requires you to do the same too.
By the way regarding this:
Most comments from outsiders are deleted within a day
I looked at your post history and you’ve got loads of old comments on hexbear still up. The only removed comments that I could see were when you were getting upset about pronouns existing.
The only removed comments that I could see were when you were getting upset about pronouns existing for some reason
Person bitching about Hexbear is a transphobe. No suprise there
It’s a strictly leftist instance lol (even more so than dbzer0), of course they’ll ban liberals and other right-wingers
Disagree about there not being good discussions on it; I regularly see the more interesting discussions on Lemmy on that instance, so long as you’re acting in good faith.
But Chanel of what they call left is much MUCH narrower than most people think of it.
If you don’t want to get banned you better not only be communist but also authoritharian as can be, you dont only love Marx and lenin, but you better also love Stalin, modern day russia and north Korea.
If you think of yourself as a Marxist communist, but don’t agree with Stalins methods, you’re a “libtard” to them and they won’t even argue with you but only make fun and downvote you (or if on their instance often ban you)
Its the place tankies got to circlejerk, its no place for discussion or sharing/refining of left ideas.
Either you love Stalin like a god or you are a libtard, thats what I have seen from hexbear and lemmygrad users (not that different of clientele from what I have seen)
Either you love Stalin like a god or you are a libtard
You’re reading memes as sincere honestly, which I guess is any easy mistake to make. You’re correct about which way we lean but when we’re being serious we’re far more nuanced about AES and socialist historical figures than you imply.
Also, not that ‘authoritarianism’ is a real thing, but we do have a large number of anarchist users alongside our ML majority, and have specific rules in place to protect them against infighting.
Also we’d never say “-tard”. That’s ableist language.
Okay maybe I’m mixing up lemmygrad and hexbear in my head a little bit to much, but alone the “we are very nuanced abut realsocialism, what you mean are just insincere memes, don’t take them seriously” doesn’t fit with the “we always argue in good faith, we are just sometimes not that polite” another hedbear user stated in this thread.
I think for people being tankies you could just dismiss the dumb comments as jokes, as you see quite few of them. When being actually wholeheartedly of the opinion that Stalins way of running a country is bad for not only minorities but everyone else and also inhumane, you get a lot of hate.
Sure you can say all the hate are jokes, all constructive discussion is for real, but that’s making it to easy in my opinion.
The only discussions I head with hexbear people that were productive were the ones where they where on a different instance than their own, and arguing against multiple people, they sometimes made good arguments, but as soon as there where lots of them you would just get buzzwords and name calling along with down voting ton oblivion.
As for the “we are a colorful left scene”, I kinda doubt that… Every time even I mentioned people like horkheimer or ardorno or said that the world isn’t automatically a paradise as soon as someone gets president who calls himself socialist, I got called liberal and right wing and so on.
If you don’t want to get banned you better not only be communist but also authoritharian as can be, you dont only love Marx and lenin, but you better also love Stalin, modern day russia and north Korea.
Check this thread Russia adds ‘LGBT movement’ to list of extremist and terrorist organizations
Yeah, I don’t agree with them on much in a political sense, but I’ve never really had a problem holding a conversation or debate because I’m not being a shit. And the times that I’ve said something a bit off base, they’ve always tried to confirm if I really meant what I said or if I was misunderstood before any moderation would happen.
You had your comments deleted for being a bigot, jackass.
Hexbear began as refugees from r/chapotraphouse, a leftist subreddit that was purged from Reddit by the admins 4 years ago, well before the API drama of last year.
The subreddit was banned due to supporting violence against “”“people”“” known as slave owners. Posts saying kill slave owners, John Brown did nothing wrong, etc, was the catalyst.
Hexbear was then an un-federated Lemmy instance until last year. Basically, due to not being federated with others and being born from crude dirtbag leftists, culture on Hexbear has splintered from Reddit and Lemmy at large. Mainly, being civil was not a requirement so personal insults and ad hominem is seen as not only perfectly fine, but preferred. Also uniquely being a leftist space that hasn’t had a large, community ending schism between the anarchists and Leninists has been a factor.
When Hexbear did become federated, Reddit refugees people didn’t like our hardline LGBT inclusive anti NATO Anarcho-Stalinist takes, and used Reddit terms such as “brigading” to describe our behaviour, which is more or less a misunderstanding, we have posts sorted by “Active” by default so what you see first is what someone replied to most recently, and we don’t have down votes so if you disagree with someone you reply to them to voice your disagreement instead of down voting and moving on like a coward.
So oftentimes when a newly federated instance user posts something like “Vote blue no matter who!”, it will show up to us, we can’t downvote, we reply with something along the lines of “You’re a dipshit”, that increases engagement, other people see it, also reply with serious and unserious answers alike.
Oftentimes, Reddit refugee liberals see our scathing hatred of Democrats as pro-Trump because their brains are programmed to only see the existence of 2 parties, despite one of our biggest threads before federation being hundreds of posters hoping Trump dies when he first caught COVID. Or being against the expansion of NATO as being pro Putin. Or support for Palestine as antisemitism. Etc.
So basically, a combination of “crude” language, “brigading” and being “MAGA/Putin/CCP/Iran/shills/bots” makes Hexbear a prime target for hating on.
Here’s your engagement: you’re a dipshit dsemy. Change my mind
Sounds like a cowardly dipshit who was forced into actually replying to prove how they are definitely not a coward
lmao
Liberals minimizing fascism while saying we’re the real fascists for telling them they’re wrong, picture #69420
‘Stochastic brigading’, better known as ‘replies I don’t like’.
Damn, I wonder what responses I’ve missed out over time by simply not being able to see them.
All our ankle-biters are smarmy little shits that have been banned for a plethora of reasons usually revolving around either being bigots or reactionary little monsters that revel in genocide while crying crocodile tears about communist “genocides”
For this one it’s the latter as they’re another case of “left in form, right in essence”
You do realize replying something like “You’re a dipshit” literally adds nothing to the discussion right? Downvoting a dumb comment instead of replying does not make you a coward, it just reduces the amount of pointless comments in a thread.
Maybe if you took the time to actually engage with them instead of insulting them and moving on you’d be able to change their mind.
Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes lol
Liberals and other right-wingers not interacting in good faith do deserve to be called “dipshits” or whatever, and that instance doesn’t allow using bigoted words.
Someone who knows little about politics commenting “Vote blue no matter who!” is not interacting in bad faith, and does not deserve to be called a dipshit.
Someone who knows little about politics should probably be asking questions rather than saying shit like “vote blue no matter who” when they’re committing a genocide
Hexbear is a strictly leftist instance; I think it’s reasonable for them expect someone saying shit like that to at least think they’re politically literate.
The original comment gave the example of calling a federated user a dipshit for saying something like that.
Also, while I agree that someone who knows little should ask questions, it is very common for them to assume they know enough.
Yes, that isn’t justifiable in your society. Surely you’ll be safe and pampered in your society. But, yours
you’reare not the only one. There are a lot of other societies that are different than yours. How will you be able to interact or even fight them (as foes) if you don’t understand them. Thats why you need to understand them so that you’ll be well equipped and can plot your strategies for future interactions. To understand them is not equal to agreeing with them.Anyway, life will be much more exciting when we are open to new encounters. Just like when we are able to speak many languages, imagine that.
Whether OP realizes it or not, it won’t matter. Their reply is to provide as explanation - which I think answer the question well - and not to justify what they did are acceptable or not.
Saying that behaviour isn’t “brigading” is the same type of logic neonazi influencers use when they say they can’t be blamed for one of their fans committing an act of terrorism.
Stochastic brigading might not be the same in degree as stochastic terrorism, but it’s the same in kind.
You’ve got an environment specifically set up, by the means you describe, to promote harassment. That’s brigading and trollish behaviour.
Or being against the expansion of NATO as being pro Putin
When you side against Ukraine, you are being pro-Putin. Supporting Putin makes no sense on any level, because it’s his warmongering actions that are causing the expansion of NATO. Finland and Sweden had no interest in joining except as protection against the threat posed by Putin’s aggression. Ukraine’s populace was pretty firmly against NATO membership until Putin first invaded Ukrainian territory in 2014, at which point support became quite mixed, leaning slightly in favour. And Russia’s most recent invasion of Ukraine has caused opposition to NATO membership to drop off a cliff. If you’re anti-NATO, you should be unequivocally against Putin’s actions. Instead we regularly see your users support it. (And that’s without going into the complete silence on Russia’s domestic politics, considering your claimed “hardline LGBT inclusive” stance.)
TIL Brigading is when you see posts on your front page and comment on them.
When you deliberately set up your front page in a way designed to encourage that? When you promote a culture of harassment rather than genuine engagement? Yup. You do yourself no favours by this sort of weak dismissal. It’s the same logic a nazi would use to try and shift blame away from themselves for their fans being terrorists.
I blocked Hexbear after being insulted and called names that are far removed from my points of view, this was in a response to comments I made in a thread that might have been on Hexbear.
They looked at my instance which they claimed has had issues with trolls registering accounts there and decided I was a troll because I didn’t fully agree with them, and then the insults started.
We clearly have different political viewpoints and personalities, my experience with Hexbear users is that they are very left, and very confrontational, I am more center/left, and much less confrontational.
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