Sometimes i wonder, am i the only one who found it much easier to reverse engineer the required formula from given data, multiple choice response and the different but similar formula on the other question?
Once had my class turn against me because a very unskilled teacher wrote a question on the test of which we hadent seen the required formulas in class. But that couldn’t be said the teacher because i the kid who was known to not be able to pay attention to annything found the correct answer.
No, they hated me. Also because i was the only one to pass the exam, not because i was great but because the teacher was so bad that i ended up on top because not being able to pay attention in class was my default. So it didn’t make a difference how bad the teacher was for me.
Dont ask me to remember 3 different numbers at the same time. I literally cannot do it.
hahaha… pompous ass (bet you had to look that one up you engrish prick).
how many languages do you speak read and write because I bet it’s not more than one.
I tend to overuse commas but i am trying not to because it makes my speech more identifiable in the age if ai.
Believe it or not, not putting effort in typing increases your privacy online. The important part is i got to say what i wanted and people understood what i meant anyway.
Find X where X is a modifier (a series of calculations) to be used with the provided numbers to end on a specific answers.
And i often had like 3 different sets of provided numbers and answers to verify if the series of calculations are goin in the right direction. Once you have sm that answers all 3 questions you known its gold.
Last step is restructuring the “modifier” so it actually looks like a formula.
As a kid who had a habit of reverse engineering shit, (malware analysis and ethical hacking my beloved) I genuinely don’t know you can reverse engineer an equation with a question and 4 answers, 3 of them which are wrong. Even with two questions, its still a crapshoot, and the amount of wrong to right answers seems a bit time consuming to use to try and figure out the real solution, much less the equation, in a reasonable amount of time needed to complete an exam.
It depends on the exam. One exam where it was totally possible was the EEE aero MAT for imperial college London. They have retired it since but i got about 50% (i know someone who got an interview with a negative score) because whenever the answer was a function, i could plug the function into the question ratger than do it from first principles (eg differential equations).
Brute forcing using the provided calculator and calculated guesswork till i got something that matched one of the answers.
I sometimes lost points for “something off in my formula” but the answer was correct so i passed overal.
I have a nack for “visualizing” certain math allowing for calculated guesses. I had a few instances (not on a test) where i literally just told the teacher i had not the faintest clue how to tackle the solution but it just screamed “x=3” and i was kindly told “well done, but no points without formula. “
I imagine what is going on is the answers on the multiple choice questions weren’t random and you were picking up on the pattern then retroconing a justification. Say for example
A. 12
B. 14
C. 11
D. 68
You threw out D right away because it was much different and argued that it had to be A or C because being off by one is an easy mistake. Now it’s just a question if even or odd, so you looked for a divide by 2. If found you went odd, if you found a multiple by 2 you went even.
Added to this you probably noticed a pattern. If C was the correct answer the next one was always A, etc.
If you aren’t convinced that its just really good test taking ability it would be pretty easy to use an AI and make it quiz you.
Yeah I mean in some cases it’s not hard to surmise. Given the context (class, diagram) and how many numbers you have assigned, what formulas are available to you, you might be able to guess the teacher shoved the numbers into the wrong formulas to create the incorrect answers. For some classes simply supplying nearby numbers to the correct response might not be “real” enough.
Student logic is certainly a thing, but I can’t image it much help for the complexity shown in the meme. Basic geometry or math word problems as found in biology or statistics? Yeah sure
A teacher mentioned i had a skill for calculated guesses and my first though was “Why aren’t you teaching me to hone the skills i am good at rather then forcing me to do it in a way i have an handicap (memory).
Because actually learning will do both. Learning only calculated guesses will only really teach you how to deal with manufactured scenarios. I won’t really even serve you much past high school.
I have to disagree. Being able to obtain close enough accurate results without needing to calculate or measure is incredibly useful on a daily basis.
Ever had to pick the right size drill or screwdriver bit out of a mix? Thats the kind of skill this most often relates to.
combined with real measurement it becomes intuitive knowledge to verify my own measurements.
In school i just had to do extra work to be able to write down a formula. I agree thats not useful but i was still practicing the same algebra to do so.
Trying to remember the formulas from my head turned out to be literally impossible for me. I got a diagnosis post education and i may explain why i developed this ability from need to make up for my disability.
What do you mean with a human author? Sorry you actually lost me on this. Student logic is the skill of taking school tests right? Cause outside math i had very low grades.
I rely on the same mathematical logic but the calculation is done intuitive, like a gut feeling. Thats not the “reverse engineering of formulas” i talked about, that i just did because school expected it of me. But it relies on this very useful ability.
As you use math intuitively you become more intuitive at it, honing the ability. School did not provide a platform to do so while it makes you better at normal calculations as well
The example i gave that does best illustrate it is seeing the sizes of things without having to check labels, markings or actually measure. Especially useful for domestic jobs Like hanging up a mirror on the wall. Or when visiting stores like an ikea.
Another term I believe for it is eyeballing it. But i cant see how you think it isn’t useful outside of schools. (Pun intended)
I have been outside school for more than 10 years. I use all kinds of mathematical principles on a day to day basis (part of how i perceive the world) but solutions requiring specific formulas pretty much never happens and when it very rarely does happen (i think i used Pythagorean once 2 years ago), i just google it.
Oh its also super useful in video games like
Minecraft where you have to do a lot of math but cant be bothered to take a calculator. But video games aint real life so it doesn’t count.
Yes I’m implying student logic is only applicable in contexts where a teacher has laid out a test for you to intuit.
Student logic doesn’t apply when you have to come up with a new idea to an actual problem that exists in the real world.
There is value to learning student logic. It shows creativity. It shows a level of understanding of the material and how to be a teacher. But it’s not the same as learning the material.
I think my partner has a good dose of this. Excelled at test taking but struggles to live up to expectations post education.
I don’t think it’s relevant to what i did, i never have issue generating novel ideal to successfully tackle a problem and i spend a fair amount on coding which requires good problem solving.
If annoying i had a problem with understanding the default solution so i had no choice then come up with a new one using my logic. But at that point it really is just called autism.
What you provide as an example isn’t quite what is called an educated guess, more like the ability to subitize and estimate well. Those skills are more likely to be improved only with experience and the teacher would not be able to help hone them really.
With what you said about visualizing and feeling what an answer could be, I would expect there to be some form of synergy between your ability to grasp the formulae and the mentioned ability to estimate things. With this the teacher could have helped by teaching you properties and basics about different formulae, but the problem with that approach is that you will at some point stumble upon a limitation of what can be guessed and will likely not know about it.
Actually that is sort of what happend in the end of my school career
I always understood the underlaying logic so i never needed to learn that. But then sin cos and tan happend and for some reason i don’t understand them.
I have been able to memorize their formulas on multiple occasions but i start mixing them up in less then a minute every time, i swear its actually ridiculous how inept i am at memorizing and not mixing stuff up even with mnemonics.
I had to hand in an exam with half the pages unanswered. Twice. I wad lucky the first time because the half
I did was without error and worth more then 50%. The second time, not so much and i had to defend my non existent answer before a jury.
Yesterday i learned more about algebraic topology out of curiosity, i also dabble with statistical analysis and frequently use all kinds of math in programming.
Just a minute ago i looked for a simple explanation what sin cos tan are about and its stil the same, and i know its supposedlyJust hightail school level but i don’t understand what they are for at all it makes me nervous its my Achilles’ heel of math.
Sometimes i wonder, am i the only one who found it much easier to reverse engineer the required formula from given data, multiple choice response and the different but similar formula on the other question?
Once had my class turn against me because a very unskilled teacher wrote a question on the test of which we hadent seen the required formulas in class. But that couldn’t be said the teacher because i the kid who was known to not be able to pay attention to annything found the correct answer.
And that kid’s name? Everyone Clapped.
No, they hated me. Also because i was the only one to pass the exam, not because i was great but because the teacher was so bad that i ended up on top because not being able to pay attention in class was my default. So it didn’t make a difference how bad the teacher was for me.
Dont ask me to remember 3 different numbers at the same time. I literally cannot do it.
Were you as good in English as you were in math?
The year i got an internet connection my English grades doubled but its not my first language so yeah no perfect. Deal with it :)
Oh, sorry. In English we have this stuff called punctuation. It goes between your sentences.
hahaha… pompous ass (bet you had to look that one up you engrish prick).
how many languages do you speak read and write because I bet it’s not more than one.
Damn bro.
Its two bahd that. bothurs yew sew -much? Makes 4 ez trolling!
I tend to overuse commas but i am trying not to because it makes my speech more identifiable in the age if ai.
Believe it or not, not putting effort in typing increases your privacy online. The important part is i got to say what i wanted and people understood what i meant anyway.
I didn’t quite understand what you meant in the first paragraph. I kind of guessed from the second one, but I am still not sure
All the time, although nothing this complicated.
Find X in this formula… okay, I’ll just put in the 4 choices and see which one works.
Find X where X is a modifier (a series of calculations) to be used with the provided numbers to end on a specific answers.
And i often had like 3 different sets of provided numbers and answers to verify if the series of calculations are goin in the right direction. Once you have sm that answers all 3 questions you known its gold.
Last step is restructuring the “modifier” so it actually looks like a formula.
And this is why my math teachers never gave multiple choice tests
As a kid who had a habit of reverse engineering shit, (malware analysis and ethical hacking my beloved) I genuinely don’t know you can reverse engineer an equation with a question and 4 answers, 3 of them which are wrong. Even with two questions, its still a crapshoot, and the amount of wrong to right answers seems a bit time consuming to use to try and figure out the real solution, much less the equation, in a reasonable amount of time needed to complete an exam.
It depends on the exam. One exam where it was totally possible was the EEE aero MAT for imperial college London. They have retired it since but i got about 50% (i know someone who got an interview with a negative score) because whenever the answer was a function, i could plug the function into the question ratger than do it from first principles (eg differential equations).
Maybe reverse engineering isn’t the right term.
Brute forcing using the provided calculator and calculated guesswork till i got something that matched one of the answers.
I sometimes lost points for “something off in my formula” but the answer was correct so i passed overal.
I have a nack for “visualizing” certain math allowing for calculated guesses. I had a few instances (not on a test) where i literally just told the teacher i had not the faintest clue how to tackle the solution but it just screamed “x=3” and i was kindly told “well done, but no points without formula. “
That’s making more sense to me, but my view of reverse engineering is 100% tainted by my work in SRE and hacking.
I work in the same way, but I’ve kinda forgot about using a calculator since the last few math classes I took forbid using calculators
I imagine what is going on is the answers on the multiple choice questions weren’t random and you were picking up on the pattern then retroconing a justification. Say for example
You threw out D right away because it was much different and argued that it had to be A or C because being off by one is an easy mistake. Now it’s just a question if even or odd, so you looked for a divide by 2. If found you went odd, if you found a multiple by 2 you went even.
Added to this you probably noticed a pattern. If C was the correct answer the next one was always A, etc.
If you aren’t convinced that its just really good test taking ability it would be pretty easy to use an AI and make it quiz you.
Yeah I mean in some cases it’s not hard to surmise. Given the context (class, diagram) and how many numbers you have assigned, what formulas are available to you, you might be able to guess the teacher shoved the numbers into the wrong formulas to create the incorrect answers. For some classes simply supplying nearby numbers to the correct response might not be “real” enough.
Student logic is certainly a thing, but I can’t image it much help for the complexity shown in the meme. Basic geometry or math word problems as found in biology or statistics? Yeah sure
A teacher mentioned i had a skill for calculated guesses and my first though was “Why aren’t you teaching me to hone the skills i am good at rather then forcing me to do it in a way i have an handicap (memory).
Because actually learning will do both. Learning only calculated guesses will only really teach you how to deal with manufactured scenarios. I won’t really even serve you much past high school.
I have to disagree. Being able to obtain close enough accurate results without needing to calculate or measure is incredibly useful on a daily basis.
Ever had to pick the right size drill or screwdriver bit out of a mix? Thats the kind of skill this most often relates to.
combined with real measurement it becomes intuitive knowledge to verify my own measurements.
In school i just had to do extra work to be able to write down a formula. I agree thats not useful but i was still practicing the same algebra to do so.
Trying to remember the formulas from my head turned out to be literally impossible for me. I got a diagnosis post education and i may explain why i developed this ability from need to make up for my disability.
Sure.
But if their isn’t some human author to your problem, student logic will be way less helpful than logic actually honed by learning how to learn.
What do you mean with a human author? Sorry you actually lost me on this. Student logic is the skill of taking school tests right? Cause outside math i had very low grades.
I rely on the same mathematical logic but the calculation is done intuitive, like a gut feeling. Thats not the “reverse engineering of formulas” i talked about, that i just did because school expected it of me. But it relies on this very useful ability.
As you use math intuitively you become more intuitive at it, honing the ability. School did not provide a platform to do so while it makes you better at normal calculations as well
The example i gave that does best illustrate it is seeing the sizes of things without having to check labels, markings or actually measure. Especially useful for domestic jobs Like hanging up a mirror on the wall. Or when visiting stores like an ikea.
Another term I believe for it is eyeballing it. But i cant see how you think it isn’t useful outside of schools. (Pun intended)
I have been outside school for more than 10 years. I use all kinds of mathematical principles on a day to day basis (part of how i perceive the world) but solutions requiring specific formulas pretty much never happens and when it very rarely does happen (i think i used Pythagorean once 2 years ago), i just google it.
Oh its also super useful in video games like Minecraft where you have to do a lot of math but cant be bothered to take a calculator. But video games aint real life so it doesn’t count.
Yes I’m implying student logic is only applicable in contexts where a teacher has laid out a test for you to intuit.
Student logic doesn’t apply when you have to come up with a new idea to an actual problem that exists in the real world.
There is value to learning student logic. It shows creativity. It shows a level of understanding of the material and how to be a teacher. But it’s not the same as learning the material.
I think my partner has a good dose of this. Excelled at test taking but struggles to live up to expectations post education.
I don’t think it’s relevant to what i did, i never have issue generating novel ideal to successfully tackle a problem and i spend a fair amount on coding which requires good problem solving.
If annoying i had a problem with understanding the default solution so i had no choice then come up with a new one using my logic. But at that point it really is just called autism.
What you provide as an example isn’t quite what is called an educated guess, more like the ability to subitize and estimate well. Those skills are more likely to be improved only with experience and the teacher would not be able to help hone them really.
With what you said about visualizing and feeling what an answer could be, I would expect there to be some form of synergy between your ability to grasp the formulae and the mentioned ability to estimate things. With this the teacher could have helped by teaching you properties and basics about different formulae, but the problem with that approach is that you will at some point stumble upon a limitation of what can be guessed and will likely not know about it.
Actually that is sort of what happend in the end of my school career
I always understood the underlaying logic so i never needed to learn that. But then sin cos and tan happend and for some reason i don’t understand them.
I have been able to memorize their formulas on multiple occasions but i start mixing them up in less then a minute every time, i swear its actually ridiculous how inept i am at memorizing and not mixing stuff up even with mnemonics.
I had to hand in an exam with half the pages unanswered. Twice. I wad lucky the first time because the half I did was without error and worth more then 50%. The second time, not so much and i had to defend my non existent answer before a jury.
Yesterday i learned more about algebraic topology out of curiosity, i also dabble with statistical analysis and frequently use all kinds of math in programming.
Just a minute ago i looked for a simple explanation what sin cos tan are about and its stil the same, and i know its supposedlyJust hightail school level but i don’t understand what they are for at all it makes me nervous its my Achilles’ heel of math.