"Have you ever heard of Jordan Peterson?"
“That depends…what so you mean by have, what do you mean by you and what do you mean by heard of?”
Everybody’s already mentioned the important things, but to be the more superficial one: people with no sense of style. People who just throw on something randomly and don’t give it a single thought. I get being comfortable, but you can be stylish and comfortable. You are not that when you wear knee-long jeans shorts and an unwashed tee, in my opinion.
I do not understand the dislikes. Your response is quite polite.
Right with ya. I just crawled in out the woods, from a storm. Got showered, put on nice clothes and cologne to greet my wife coming home from work. Know why? Because I want to look good for my partner. And she does the same for me.
I’m your total opposite. Requiring style in others is a huge red flag. If you care about more about the clothes of a person than about the person, I don’t want to know you.
Fair enough. Personally, I prefer personality over appearance. But I also think it’s a visual turnoff to see no effort, also because the way a person dresses is usually the first thing most people notice. I do, anyway.
it’s a visual turnoff to see no effort
Life is short and I choose my mind’s content; I don’t care about clothing except for modesty, minimal work convention or warmth.
But style is also part of a person’s personality no? I say this as someone who slaps on clothes themselves more often than not.
But style is also part of a person’s personality no?
Yes, if you accept “no style” (not caring about clothes at all) as a kind of style.
Demanding a non-null style regarding appearance is unacceptable to me.
I firmly believe that love should be color blind, which is why I never see any red flags.
Unaware status-seeking behavior. Almost everyone does it.
More common in urban and younger environments
Yes! It’s crazy how noticeable it is when I’m in the city, rather than out here in the boonies with all the geezers. Why do you do that, fellow youngs?
I’ve half a theory it’s a new boomer generation and these things are cyclical, you get a boomer one every third. 70 years back from 20 years old today you find the Boomers. 70 years back from Millennials you find the dirty 30s. 70 back from the eighties you find the flappers.
… Doesn’t that include every generation, calculated that way?
I’m skeptical it’s generational. People just chill out in that way as they age. And not to say the geezers are totally nice either, they just don’t do active dick measuring anymore. They know who’s in the club, and that I’m not, and will throw me a bone out of good manners anyway.
Idk man. The young ones today are self centered and narcissistic as hell.
Absolutely false. It’s a universal truth of our species to seek status, everyone does it.
Your statement itself is essentially an attempt to gain more status. You’re likely not part of “urban” and “younger” environments, thus “badmouthing” them raises your status comparatively.
My telling you this is an attempt to sound intelligent, which raises my own status.
Well you failed.
Explain?
Humans are all about resources (look at how everyone wants to make more money). Status effectively means access to (human) resources. When you have status, you can tell someone what to do or think and they’ll do it or believe you. When someone does something for you or believes what you tell them, you don’t only have access to your own resources, you effectively have access to their resources as well, so in the end, status is more important than having resources yourself.
The managers/bosses in a company have status. The musicians in a band playing at a pub have status. The pastor at the church has status. The millionaire has status. The politician has status. The teacher at a dance class has status.
These are easy examples. But there are a myriad more, especially more “sneaky” ones. Status doesn’t have to be obvious/institutionalized like the examples above, status is part of every single human interaction.
The “popular friend” has status. For example, they might organize gatherings that people actually come to. If another one of the friend group, that has less status, tried that, less or no people might come. I’m sure you noticed something similar.
Or some gossipy/overly friendly person in the office has status. They make little friends everywhere, give people small meaningless gifts, pay attention what’s happening and offer people information (also a resource) for free. If they suddenly start badmouthing someone (even if that person has not deserved it and only angered them for some trivial reason), they might cause the badmouthed person lots of trouble through reducing their status.
Of course, status-seeking behavior is not necessarily bad. A philanthropic, intelligent, always (actually) being nice person also gathers status. People like them, they say true things that help people, which gives them status. They give people favors, like inviting them for food, which also gives them status. And so on.
As you can see, status-seeking behavior is literally everywhere. Our psyche is built to seek more status and it’s one of our main drivers in life. For example, if you want to get good at playing an instrument, your driving force behind that desire is seeking the status that comes with it. You might say it “is just fun”, but what is fun but a motivational force of your psyche to make you do something? Fun things are fun because doing those things gave an advantage in an evolutionary context. The status that comes with getting good at an instrument and being able to make other people feel good through music is the ultimate “goal” of your evolved behavior.
So yeah, once you understand this, you actually see status-seeking behavior everywhere. And almost everyone is completely unaware of it. I myself am essentially looking for status right now by explaining this to you, I give you a “smart” explanation demonstrating my knowledge that thus makes me look intelligent. There is no direct advantage to me explaining anything to you. It makes me feel good to share my knowledge, which is why I do it. It feels good because demonstrating knowledge/intelligence raises my status.
That’s an unnervingly cold, reductionist, cynical take.
What’s your alternative?
“My” alternative is to not treat every human interaction as transactional maneuvering to curry favor. It’s an incredibly strange commodification of immaterial concepts that rejects or ignores the complexity and nuance of human emotions and motivations. It’s simply an inadequate theory.
Well can you at least please tell me some examples of alternate motivations that governs our behavior?
Good response. Though it was a bit wordy.
I know what status means, but I didn’t realise what status-seeking behaviour could be referring to, since it was vague. I know you tried to reduce your response to a level that everyone could understand, but that was unnecessary. People have the internet now.
For future reference you could try defining status in a single sentence, which allows people to look it up in a search engine or dictionary without room for confusion/vagueness.
I myself am essentially looking for status right now by explaining this to you
That’s not true. You’re taking one thought and extending it to try to interpret all of human society with. I’ve made the same mistake before. Of course, your original thought isn’t completely wrong, but you stretched it to almost irrelevant (but not unrelated) levels.
So yeah, once you understand this, you actually see status-seeking behavior everywhere.
No, I’m afraid I don’t. What you call status seeking can be called survival in some cases, enjoyment in some, and a waste of resources in some. Calling it status seeking is a misuse of the term and gross reduction of the behaviour’s quirks.
Perhaps a better term would be power-hungry person. But maybe that’s not the intent of your thought.
It makes me feel good to share my knowledge, which is why I do it. It feels good because demonstrating knowledge/intelligence raises my status.
That all may fall apart when you realise your knowledge is biased too much towards a single concept. Or too narrow minded.
Note: No insult intended, no sarcasm inserted.
- an imperfect human
The abused want freedom from abusers. The enslaved want freedom from the slavers. The poor want sustenance from the rich. The not-poor want greater quality in their life.
None of that is status seeking, unless you twist the meaning. It’s hurtful to call it that.
Would materialism or consumerism, then, be the turn-off? Making more of “possessing” than “being” or “doing” is a real turn-off for me.
And, materialism/consumerism is — truly — promoted everywhere.
You’re taking one thought and extending it to try to interpret all of human society with.
That’s absolutely not true. I’m saying that status-seeking is a part of almost all of our unconscious decision-making processes, not that it’s the sole part of our decision-making process. A part != Interpret all with it. Of course there’s other parts, like you say, survival.
I can not convey all my knowledge and thoughts in a single comment. Even though I tried to shorten it, you still find too long. The “it’s only a part” I found obvious, thus I didn’t stretch it, but you would have needed it to be included. You personally didn’t need the other parts that you found too long. It’s basically impossible to know what you need to talk about when explaining something without a conversation, because we don’t know each other’s knowledge base. It’s even more impossible in a forum-style format, where one comment is read by potentially every human on Earth, each of which have vastly different knowledge bases. What is obvious/superfluous for one is not for someone else.
What you call status seeking can be called survival in some cases, enjoyment in some, and a waste of resources in some.
Do all these things not play together? Isn’t having status a way to survive better? Aren’t the activities that are enjoyable also the ones that allows us to survive (in a non-modern, ancestral world context in which we evolved)? Isn’t having status enjoyable for most?
I feel that you’re 70% on the mark but then why is it a turn-off for you, as you said in your original message?
Part of the 30%:
Status seeking behaviour has many justifications i.e. that it helps smoothen human interaction, to say the least. So why is it a turn-off for you?
Hairy private parts
Being back 70s bush.
fat
+1 to being rude to service staff Also MAGA apparel or citing Jesus/God constantly
Can I interest you in this Chick Tract?
/s
It depends. I run a bar and also frequent bars. I see a lot of behavior from wait staff I’d fire them for. Wait staff endlessly bitch about customers but its a two way street, staff develops a blind spot to their own behavior due to spending so much time in a bar.
Bro they are working in a high intensity environment. You are there to have fun. They are talking behind your back. (So how does that affect you?) Versus actively being a jerk to someone just doing their job (which is, unfortunately, to engage with you). It’s not the same.
Are you really trying to explain running a bar to me? Anyways your answer is horseshit. I work in that high intensity environment and see the blinders go on. Innocuous requests by customers turn into staff acting like it’s a massive imposition. They openly talk to me because they’ve been at my bar, served by me, and I know who’s I’d hire and I wouldn’t from the free talk.
Cool story bro.
Being rude to service staff. Immediate indicator on who they are as a person. There is zero reason to ever be mad at someone making near minimum wage whose job it is to grab you a drink or check you out or something. It also shows that they’ve themselves never worked service, which is a rite of passage
“Why should I tip?! I’m already paying for the service!”
Immediately leave without even telling them to take a cab.
Happens to be true in all modern western countries though, only the US seems unable to force companies to pay a livable minimum wage.
If I am ordering and picking up at a counter fuck tipping. If I’m actually being waited on then I’ll always tip if the service wasn’t dogshit.
I tip in those situations because the $5 won’t make a difference to me, but might to them.
Like, if you’re broke, whatever. But some people are pulling in seven figures annually and still whine about a $5 tip.
That is specifically a US problem.
Not necessarily. I’m not in the US, but we’ve imported a lot of their less savoury customs, and tipping culture is one of them. It is costumary to tip 18% where I’m from.
Smoker.
Poor hygiene.
General negativity or insecurity.
Late to time commitments.
Drinks/imbibes beyond group vibes.
drinks/imbibes beyond group vibes.
How about drinking while cooking? Yk, having wine while cooking steak au jus or something.
I don’t have a problem with drinking. It’s unattractive when someone ignores the situation and drinks way too much. “Beyond group vibes” means out of touch with whoever they’re drinking with.
If everyone else is enjoying a quiet get together, maybe one drink or two, don’t get raging drunk. If everyone else is smoking weed, don’t start doing shrooms.
If it’s a party where everyone’s drinking more and plans to get home safely have been established, then go ahead and drink to match.
On early dates, getting to know someone, I’m having one drink if any at all as a matter of safety. If the guy I’m out with gets drunk while I’m sober, that’s an ick.
Hm, yeah that’s more than reasonable.
Drinks/imbibes beyond group vibes.
Man, I have a couple friends that have this exact problem and it’s tiresome…
Smoking cigarettes
Does this apply to vape and weed?
Yes, but not to the same degree.
Certain accents. She can be gorgeous and all, but some accents are an immediate turnoff for me…
What accents in specific?
The ones associated with poverty are the usual ones that catch crap. Regional or recent immigrant.
Maybe this person is going to surprise me and just finds Australian or Parisian French grating personally, though.
Now we need to know which ones.
🚨 Eurocentrism incoming 🚨
I’m gonna bet bri’ish
Might be picky but if they don’t return their shopping carts or just leaves it in a parking spot
Cart narcs are fucking annoying and it’s only a matter of time until someone pulls a gun on one
That already happened to him in Texas hahaha
based
Probably. That would be wrong, though. If you’re really sure you want to leave the cart right there just ignore them.
if some dude was hounding me/getting in my face they’re gonna learn a little lesson
Ah, and then you go to jail, where you can put your epic tacticool alpha-wolf skills to the ultimate test! Shit fury on them! They’re dead kiddo! /s
Good thing my state has stand your ground laws. Plus I’m white so cops would most likely just give me a pass anyways.
What an excellent understanding of stand your ground laws. /s
Unfortunately no amount of bait will allow you to shoot me through the keyboard.
Someone that takes abstract statements personally and responds in anger. It shows a lack of self awareness and depth. It also implies that they have a limited binary view of the world around them; a bipolar me versus others perspective outlook.
Status quo defender
I’ll have you know, Rockin’ All Over the World is a fine song.
Whatever you want…
I like it…
Whimsical, fame-seeking change maker.
fame-seeking
I agree there, lol. I’m not into people who are doing what they do for the fame.
I do all my activism on the sly. Publicly, I’m a status quo defender.
More this for me. I deal with activist drama enough just doing activist stuff.
Lemmy.ml mod /s
