If it really boils down to this, how can one fight back? I don’t wanna sit here and see these sad articles blow by, what can I do to tell Disney to fuck off. I did not sign up for this, I wanted to watch funny cartoons and superheroes like a normal person, and this is my reward? If suing them is futile, is storming their office and yelling at their corporate head about this any better? I’m pissed, and I can’t sit here and wait for other legal heads to shut this stupid clause down.
If it really boils down to this, how can one fight back?
Historically? Guillotines in the village square, and/or Molotovs through the front windows of the overlords’ house. The rich learned a long time ago that when no other recourse is left, people will eventually turn to violence. And they learned that keeping the poors placated is a matter of life or death. Because money and fame won’t stop an angry mob, and even trained soldiers will get overwhelmed by sheer crowd size.
I believe Sun Tsu wrote something applicable in The Art of War, along the lines of “Always leave a surrounded army a way out. Show them a way to life so they will not be compelled to fight to the death. Because even an exhausted army will fight to the death if they have no other option.” So the rich and powerful set up systems that are heavily skewed in the rich’s favor, but at least attempt to appear fair on the surface. They set up a visible “way to life” so that people could at least feel like they had a viable way of fighting back without resorting to violence.
But recently, the rich and powerful seem to have forgotten that, and have dropped all pretext of fairness. Now it’s just blatant “you’re going to be killed and there’s nothing you can do about it.” Which means that the people are eventually going to be forced to fight to the death, because they’re cornered and see no other option. And I genuinely believe that if things carry on this same trajectory that people will turn to violence as a means of recourse, because it’s quickly becoming the only effective recourse that is within reach.
I think media piracy is not only acceptable, but something that should be actively promoted by everyone. Piracy is the only way to preserve media for future generations.
It’s a small thing, but for me it’s refusing to support them as much as I can. I don’t use Disney+ and try not to buy merchandise from their IPs. Admittedly this is both difficult since they own so. many. things. while also being a drop in the bucket for such a large company, but if enough folks feel the same, it can move the needle a small amount.
I also shared this message out on all my platforms (that of their shady practices) which influenced at least a few people to say they were distancing themselves from the mouse.
Ultimately though, corporations will always do what is best for their shareholders, and in this case, that means doing anything possible not to pay out, PR nightmare be damned. Meaningful legislation is really the only thing that puts guard rails on this behaviour, so my last recommendation really comes down to being vocal with your representatives that these things matter and voting accordingly. I recognize again this is a small thing but on-mass action like this is how change happens.
He only had a free trial which makes it even crazier. Also I don’t know who thought an arbitration demand would apply to food vs a streaming service, but as insane as our court system is with judges siding with money I can’t see a judge feeling a TOS could be THAT fluid is like Nike refusing to return a pair of sneakers because you’re cousin owned a copy of NBA JAM in the 90’s, although you never played it.
This case has awful optics but it isn’t as insane as it is presented here. First, it’s just resolving things by arbitration not dismissing the suit completely. Second, Disney didn’t own the restaurant in question, it was on their property, and they promoted it on their website. Its reasonable that an arbitration agreement for something like disney+ could be extended to the use of their website.
“This is not like having judges, who get paid the same no matter what happens,” says Stanford Graduate School of Business finance professor Amit Seru, who collaborated on the study with Mark Egan at Harvard Business School and Gregor Matvos at the University of Texas at Austin. “Here, you only get paid if you’re selected as an arbitrator. They have incentives to slant toward the business side, because they know that those who don’t do so won’t get picked. Everyone knows what’s happening.”
It is as insane as it sounds. Yes, alternative dispute resolution is perfectly commonplace and indeed in many countries - such as mine - there is an expectation that you attempt ADR before bringing a matter to court, unless there is some reason why you couldn’t.
That’s fine. That’s not an issue.
Disney claimed that due to the terms and conditions of the Disney+ video streaming service, anyone who has or had a subscription agrees to resolve any and all disputes with Disney through mediation and they therefore waive any recourse through the courts. For absolutely any form of dispute, even a wrongful death.
That is absolutely insane and evil to even attempt and there is no justifying it.
Arbitration aside, I think you’re forgetting these are terms from the streaming service.
If tomorrow I attack you, break your spine and you lose mobility for life, then I come back saying in 2011 you purchased an indie game I made and waived your right to sue me in the terms of service, that wouldn’t be insane? Suuure.
They also agreed to a similar arbitration clause again when purchasing the park tickets. It is insane that the disney lawyers even mentioned disney+. They had a more recent and relevant agreement right there.
Either way, I hope they lose. Fuck disney and forced arbitration.
Agreed but it isn’t as much a stretch as the disney+ agreement and serves the same purpose for their argument. The restaurant is on disney owned property right next to the park.
You can legally kill anyone related to someone who has had Disney+.
Iirc, the wife died, the husband sued, and they tried to say the husband can’t sue because HE had had the subscription a long time ago.
Each subscriber loses the right to sue for any of their loved ones.
After all, if they’re dead, they can’t sue you anyway
If it really boils down to this, how can one fight back? I don’t wanna sit here and see these sad articles blow by, what can I do to tell Disney to fuck off. I did not sign up for this, I wanted to watch funny cartoons and superheroes like a normal person, and this is my reward? If suing them is futile, is storming their office and yelling at their corporate head about this any better? I’m pissed, and I can’t sit here and wait for other legal heads to shut this stupid clause down.
Historically? Guillotines in the village square, and/or Molotovs through the front windows of the overlords’ house. The rich learned a long time ago that when no other recourse is left, people will eventually turn to violence. And they learned that keeping the poors placated is a matter of life or death. Because money and fame won’t stop an angry mob, and even trained soldiers will get overwhelmed by sheer crowd size.
I believe Sun Tsu wrote something applicable in The Art of War, along the lines of “Always leave a surrounded army a way out. Show them a way to life so they will not be compelled to fight to the death. Because even an exhausted army will fight to the death if they have no other option.” So the rich and powerful set up systems that are heavily skewed in the rich’s favor, but at least attempt to appear fair on the surface. They set up a visible “way to life” so that people could at least feel like they had a viable way of fighting back without resorting to violence.
But recently, the rich and powerful seem to have forgotten that, and have dropped all pretext of fairness. Now it’s just blatant “you’re going to be killed and there’s nothing you can do about it.” Which means that the people are eventually going to be forced to fight to the death, because they’re cornered and see no other option. And I genuinely believe that if things carry on this same trajectory that people will turn to violence as a means of recourse, because it’s quickly becoming the only effective recourse that is within reach.
I love this comment and Sun Tzu reference, thank you so much for posting it!
As time goes on, I am more and more convinced that media piracy is morally acceptable.
Always has been… none of this shit is new, just the audacity is amped up.
I think media piracy is not only acceptable, but something that should be actively promoted by everyone. Piracy is the only way to preserve media for future generations.
It’s a small thing, but for me it’s refusing to support them as much as I can. I don’t use Disney+ and try not to buy merchandise from their IPs. Admittedly this is both difficult since they own so. many. things. while also being a drop in the bucket for such a large company, but if enough folks feel the same, it can move the needle a small amount.
I also shared this message out on all my platforms (that of their shady practices) which influenced at least a few people to say they were distancing themselves from the mouse.
Ultimately though, corporations will always do what is best for their shareholders, and in this case, that means doing anything possible not to pay out, PR nightmare be damned. Meaningful legislation is really the only thing that puts guard rails on this behaviour, so my last recommendation really comes down to being vocal with your representatives that these things matter and voting accordingly. I recognize again this is a small thing but on-mass action like this is how change happens.
My two cents at least.
Stop giving them money is about the only thing the average person can do.
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It is a moral imperative for anyone who considers themselves to be a protector of their family to just pirate Disney shit instead
He only had a free trial which makes it even crazier. Also I don’t know who thought an arbitration demand would apply to food vs a streaming service, but as insane as our court system is with judges siding with money I can’t see a judge feeling a TOS could be THAT fluid is like Nike refusing to return a pair of sneakers because you’re cousin owned a copy of NBA JAM in the 90’s, although you never played it.
This case has awful optics but it isn’t as insane as it is presented here. First, it’s just resolving things by arbitration not dismissing the suit completely. Second, Disney didn’t own the restaurant in question, it was on their property, and they promoted it on their website. Its reasonable that an arbitration agreement for something like disney+ could be extended to the use of their website.
Binding arbitration is terrible for consumers:
No, it is insane. I don’t know of other countries that allow a corporation to just not allow you to sue them and force you into arbitration.
It is as insane as it sounds. Yes, alternative dispute resolution is perfectly commonplace and indeed in many countries - such as mine - there is an expectation that you attempt ADR before bringing a matter to court, unless there is some reason why you couldn’t.
That’s fine. That’s not an issue.
Disney claimed that due to the terms and conditions of the Disney+ video streaming service, anyone who has or had a subscription agrees to resolve any and all disputes with Disney through mediation and they therefore waive any recourse through the courts. For absolutely any form of dispute, even a wrongful death.
That is absolutely insane and evil to even attempt and there is no justifying it.
Arbitration aside, I think you’re forgetting these are terms from the streaming service.
If tomorrow I attack you, break your spine and you lose mobility for life, then I come back saying in 2011 you purchased an indie game I made and waived your right to sue me in the terms of service, that wouldn’t be insane? Suuure.
They also agreed to a similar arbitration clause again when purchasing the park tickets. It is insane that the disney lawyers even mentioned disney+. They had a more recent and relevant agreement right there.
Either way, I hope they lose. Fuck disney and forced arbitration.
The restaurant in question wasn’t located in the park, so that clause was just as irrelevant.
Agreed but it isn’t as much a stretch as the disney+ agreement and serves the same purpose for their argument. The restaurant is on disney owned property right next to the park.