• 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    Clockwise and counter-clockwise makes sense.

    But when you say “right” it’s not clear which side of the circle is being referenced. If the top of the circle is moving to the right, the bottom is moving left at the same time. So the saying only makes sense when you specify that you’re talking about the top of the circle.

    • Zron@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      What the fuck are you talking about.

      You’re either rotating the fastener to the right or the left.

      It doesn’t matter what side you’re talking about, because you’re not moving one side of the fastener, you’re rotating the whole thing one direction or the other.

      Clockwise just means something is rotating to the right.

      If I ask you to turn around to the right, are you going to ask me what side of you I’m referencing?

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        You aee assuming a top orientation moving to the right. Give somebody a wrench handle at the bottom of nut and tell them left to loosen, you will see how most take it literally and move handle to the left side of their body. they think in terms of their left and their right, not the screws right left from a starting location at top, or if from 4 oclock position to the “left of” 4 oclock as if you were facing the 4.

      • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        If I ask you to turn around to the right, are you going to ask me what side of you I’m referencing?

        No, because humans have a pretty clear forward direction. Screws don’t. You say turn a screw to the right, do you mean make the top of the screw move right or the bottom move right?

        Most people assume the top, but not all, and the language is ambiguous.

        • Zron@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The “front” or “forward” direction of a screw is clearly the face of the fastener itself, be it a hex head, Phillips, or Slotted screw. Picking a side of a face as the front doesn’t make any sense. The whole thing needs to rotate one direction or another, and it will either rotate to the right to tighten, or the left to loosen.

          If I ask you what the front of a clock is, are you going to tell me it’s the top curve near the ceiling? No it’s the face of the clock, and the hands rotate around it to the right.

          • 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            The “front” or “forward” direction of a screw is clearly the face of the fastener itself, be it a hex head, Phillips, or Slotted screw.

            Correct.

            Picking a side of a face as the front doesn’t make any sense.

            Right. Nobody is talking about the under side of the fastener. Just looking it the face of the fastener, as one does when driving into something.

            The whole thing needs to rotate one direction or another,

            Wrong. A rotating circle rotates in all directions, including right and left, up and down, at the same time. If you attach an arrow perpendicular to the circle, pointing in the direction of rotation, then (if rotating clockwise) the arrow will point right at 0°, down at 90°, left at 180°, and up at 270°

            and it will either rotate to the right to tighten, or the left to loosen.

            You’re talking about the TOP of the rotation. The bottom of the rotation is moving the opposite direction. Just like the right and left sides move in opposite directions.

            Think about a wrench hanging off a fastener, handle pointing to six o’clock. To tighten it (clockwise), does the handle move toward your left or right?

            No it’s the face of the clock, and the hands rotate around it to the right.

            From nine o’clock to three oclock it rotates to the right. From three to nine it rotates to the left.

            The rule for the top of the rotation is “righty tighty”. For the bottom of rotation the rule is “lefty tighty”.

            The “righty tighty” saying doesn’t specify which side of the rotation it’s referencing, which as a kid helping my grandfather in the garage was confusing.

      • asap@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Here is clockwise. One arrow is going to the right and one to the left.

        • Zron@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The whole thing is rotating to the right, that’s what clockwise means. Clocks rotate to the right. One arrow is not pointing left, it’s pointing in the direction of rotation, which is to the right.

          • seth@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You think this arrow is pointing to the right, when it is clearly pointing up and to the left? Fascinating.

            • Zron@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              If you follow that arrow around to the next with your hand, which direction is your hand moving?

              That is indicating clockwise rotation, or a rotation to the right. We’re talking about circles here

              • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                2 months ago

                If I start at the beginning of the arrow and follow it, it’s moving left.

                If clockwise was the same thing as right, we wouldn’t use that term.

        • threeganzi@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          I tend to agree but you could argue that from a perspective in the center of the rotation you’re turning to the right. Imagine standing in the center of those arrows.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      you have to have never seen a steering wheel to not understand which side of the circle is being referenced. it’s always the top. who would even reference anything else and why.

      “turn it right”

      “which part???”

      “the middle of course, you absolute alien”

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        Because people get confused when there is no space for the wrench at the top, and they put the handle at the bottom and try to move the wrench left or right, not referencing the top of bolt.

        Because they aren’t using the saying as a clokwise/counter clockwise reminder but as a flat out instruction.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        I think we can all understand how it functions but that doesn’t make it “correct.” It’s spinning around a circle. Exactly half of its moving right as the other half moves left. That’s why we have the terms clockwise and counter-clockwise. If left and right were actually reasonable for something spinning in a circle this wouldn’t exist.

    • underisk@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Imagine it as if it were a track you were driving around, which way would you turn the wheel?

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        2 months ago

        So you’re explaining rotation, in terms of a smaller imaginary rotation, which engages with imaginary traction wheels, which engage with the work to be turned?

        If that works for you, great, but it is complicated.

        • underisk@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          No im trying to illustrate the parallels between how you turn the wheel, how the car turns in response to that , and how they are all related. You turn left you will make the exact same rotational movement, with both the vehicle, and the steering wheel.

          It’s as simple as, “What direction do you turn the wheel to make the car go left?” I just stacked on top “and also it makes the car itself do that same exact circular movement” so you don’t just dismiss this as some kind of arbitrary convention.

          • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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            2 months ago

            Oh, I see.

            Car steering wheels work that way because of the convention. Change the side that the steering column’s pinion meets the rack and the wheel would work the opposite way. From the mathematical perspective, there’s two ways to continuously map an arc of the steering wheel to an arc of the wheels, and since they aren’t in the same plane neither is “wrong”.

            • underisk@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              i know you can make the wheel work the opposite way, jesus christ. the circle motion the path of the car makes when you turn left is the same as when you turn the wheel to the conventional left. imagine, instead you steered “left” by a joystick. the car would still draw the same circular path the same fucking way, because turning left makes an anticlockwise circle, every time, in every situation.

              • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                2 months ago

                Ah, so the car isn’t even important. You’re one of the people imagining standing on the screw. As long as you have a convention about which way is “up” on it, that does work.

                • underisk@lemmy.ml
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                  2 months ago

                  You have to have a convention about Up to usefully describe a rotational direction at all. I don’t see how that’s relevant. Left implies an Up.

                  • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                    2 months ago

                    Yes, it’s true, you do. Left doesn’t really imply an up so much as it comes as a package with one, though. I’m not OP, but historically I had the same issue. I just didn’t automatically jump to “in is down, and I’m on the rim”, and instead was thinking about my actual physical left and right at that moment.

        • underisk@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          If a steering wheel has you this perplexed then I beg you to never ever drive a vehicle.

          • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            If you’re gripping the bottom of the wheel you move your hands left to make the car turn right. Which is kind of the whole problem here. Rotation around a centre doesn’t happen right or left. That’s the whole reason why the words “clockwise” and “anticlockwise” exist. Translation = right, left, up, down, forward, back. Rotation = clockwise, anticlockwise.

            • underisk@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              If I ask you to turn the car left and you give me this speech I would eject from the car.

            • angrystego@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              It doesn’t matter where you hold the wheel. When you’re turning right, you’re always doing the right movement for tightening a screw, no matter the hand position. That’s the point.

              • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                A clockwise rotation turns a car to the right (in forward gear) and tightens a nut (right hand threaded). But this is not a rotation to the right. It’s a clockwise rotation. You can’t rotate “to the right”. That’s the point.

    • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Yes, it’s always the top side of the circle in this context, or you can think about how clock hands do go in a specific direction, because they’re a radius, not a circumference. There, now it’s cleared up for you.

        • gerdesj@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          In Australia, it’s the other way around and the clock will try to eat you or at least sting you to death.