Finding a doctor, making an appointment, keeping that appointment, trying who knows how many medications until you find one that helps, etc. is not the easiest thing in the world when you have trouble just getting out of bed in the morning.
But you still have to take steps to do it or your hand will never get better. Granted it’s easier if people give you support but depending on where you are at in life that can’t necessarily be something you can count on. So you have to break it down into a manageable step and attack it at that point. If you’re having trouble getting out bed, focus on just getting out of bed. Or don’t, just call a doctor from bed and do telemedicine there if possible. Whatever works.
It sounds callous to someone that’s deep in it but the reality of the situation is that excuses won’t alleviate your situation. You have to find what you can do, if you can’t do something then it is what it is but you also have to accept that the world does not exist without consequence and you will probably have to accept the consequences of that action (people being frustrated with you for flaking, trouble at work, etc). Pursue accommodations when possible to alleviate the burden but also recognize that depression is a mix of neurochemical and behavioral components. You have a degree of control over severity of the behavioral part and it is about the choices you make with what how you spend your time
All of those points are things that depression actively disrupts. It’s akin to asking an American, living hand to mouth, to just pay out of pocket. It’s not a case of not going on an extra holiday. It’s a case of not making rent payments to do it.
Depression can leave you without enough mental resources to even maintain basic functionality. An upfront cost, for a payout potential years down the line, is simply more than many can afford.
The worst part is that you are correct. However, it’s the same correctness as telling someone about to lose their house to “just make more money”. Technically correct, but useless and callous in practice.
It’s unbelievably frustrating how much of this narrative is pervasive here. I’m all over these comment replies pushing back against it and here is why: because it is defeatist bullshit. Someone with depression, who is already struggling, reads your comment and now has reason to go “oh well yeah, that’s right, it is hard and it is difficult and I might as well not bother”
Fuck that. Your metaphor is bullshit. The difference is a person living in extreme poverty can’t generally make huge differences with saving $5 a week. But someone with depression can make significant progress with small behavioral changes to build momentum in the direction they want to move towards. This is not conjecture, this is evidence based both via CBT and behavior activation theory.
Frankly I would argue pushing the narrative of “well it’s really hard so you might as well just not try” is far more damaging than what the comic outlines. The behavior in the comic is rude and disenfranchising but the behavior in some of these comments is enabling and actively works against someone potentially seeking treatment
As stated in one of my other replies what do you propose as an alternative? Let people with mental illness languish and send them good vibes? Do you also send thoughts and prayers after mass shootings?
What we need is clean, efficient treatment paths for acute depression. Barriers to treatment are the worst thing possible.
We need to work on attacking root causes, not just throw some drugs at the person and call it a day.
We need to help teach depressed people HOW to start pulling themselves out, not just to try harder.
Once the patient is stable, we need to NOT just wash our hands of them, treatment wise. This is the time that spending mental effort will lead to far bigger gains.
It’s the difference between telling someone with broken legs to “walk it off” vs emergency treatment, casts for 6+ weeks, and then physiotherapy where “walk it off” becomes walk on it to rebuild your strength.
The “just try harder” mentality got me into the mess Ive been in. It burnt me out, and it took me decades to even realise how bad I actually was, and years more to even start getting the help I actually needed. Even now, I have to fight for it. 1 slip up, and I’m set back months or years in the process. It’s like putting the hospital A&E department on the 5th floor, with no lifts, and expecting people to walk up if they really want treatment.
Im not telling people with two broken legs to walk to the doctor. I’m telling them to assess their situation and do what is within their power to do in this moment, which would likely be to call emergency services/ambulance in that metaphor
You have to own your problem to start fixing it or it will never get better. There is no changing that.
I think you kinda have to imagine yourself in a situation where you are despearate and see no way out, except maybe suicide, cause it’s easier and will end the suffering. Then you will get where these people are.
What are you suggesting? That we just leave these people alone to languish? That to me sounds unbelievably cruel. It’s just under a shitty veneer of pretending to be kind. You’re enabling someone and worsening their quality of life because you don’t want to encounter the idea of discomfort.
The point is you shouldn’t be telling the depressed person how to deal with their illness.
The author of this comic is trying to say that the problem is not the depressed person, the problem is everyone else telling him how to treat his illness.
You’ve got some good advice but you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the point this artist is trying to make.
I wasn’t replying to the comic, I was replying to that person.
Regardless of that the problem is not binary issue. A problem is the people demoralizing the individual, sure, but this is a contributing factor to the individuals inaction. The individuals inaction is a problem as well and for said individual this is the worse of the 2 problems, as it is the main one they can act on. You can complain about other people being tone deaf and that is valid, those people are rude, but it’s not moving you forward
Yea, I was just thinking this morning how fucked up it is that there’s nothing you can do if you’re in this situation to catch up. The world won’t stop moving while you try to figure your shit out and you’re just fucked if you fall behind while trying to deal with it.
this, big time. The amount of times where I had migraine with the vision impairment on the day of an appointment, unable to drive and farther away than I could safely get to on my own by any means if I could manage to fumble through any to begin with, and nobody able to bring me.
then just remembering which meds go to my elderly birds, elderly grandparents, and which go to me
Finding a doctor, making an appointment, keeping that appointment, trying who knows how many medications until you find one that helps, etc. is not the easiest thing in the world when you have trouble just getting out of bed in the morning.
But you still have to take steps to do it or your hand will never get better. Granted it’s easier if people give you support but depending on where you are at in life that can’t necessarily be something you can count on. So you have to break it down into a manageable step and attack it at that point. If you’re having trouble getting out bed, focus on just getting out of bed. Or don’t, just call a doctor from bed and do telemedicine there if possible. Whatever works.
It sounds callous to someone that’s deep in it but the reality of the situation is that excuses won’t alleviate your situation. You have to find what you can do, if you can’t do something then it is what it is but you also have to accept that the world does not exist without consequence and you will probably have to accept the consequences of that action (people being frustrated with you for flaking, trouble at work, etc). Pursue accommodations when possible to alleviate the burden but also recognize that depression is a mix of neurochemical and behavioral components. You have a degree of control over severity of the behavioral part and it is about the choices you make with what how you spend your time
All of those points are things that depression actively disrupts. It’s akin to asking an American, living hand to mouth, to just pay out of pocket. It’s not a case of not going on an extra holiday. It’s a case of not making rent payments to do it.
Depression can leave you without enough mental resources to even maintain basic functionality. An upfront cost, for a payout potential years down the line, is simply more than many can afford.
The worst part is that you are correct. However, it’s the same correctness as telling someone about to lose their house to “just make more money”. Technically correct, but useless and callous in practice.
It’s unbelievably frustrating how much of this narrative is pervasive here. I’m all over these comment replies pushing back against it and here is why: because it is defeatist bullshit. Someone with depression, who is already struggling, reads your comment and now has reason to go “oh well yeah, that’s right, it is hard and it is difficult and I might as well not bother”
Fuck that. Your metaphor is bullshit. The difference is a person living in extreme poverty can’t generally make huge differences with saving $5 a week. But someone with depression can make significant progress with small behavioral changes to build momentum in the direction they want to move towards. This is not conjecture, this is evidence based both via CBT and behavior activation theory.
Frankly I would argue pushing the narrative of “well it’s really hard so you might as well just not try” is far more damaging than what the comic outlines. The behavior in the comic is rude and disenfranchising but the behavior in some of these comments is enabling and actively works against someone potentially seeking treatment
As stated in one of my other replies what do you propose as an alternative? Let people with mental illness languish and send them good vibes? Do you also send thoughts and prayers after mass shootings?
What we need is clean, efficient treatment paths for acute depression. Barriers to treatment are the worst thing possible.
We need to work on attacking root causes, not just throw some drugs at the person and call it a day.
We need to help teach depressed people HOW to start pulling themselves out, not just to try harder.
Once the patient is stable, we need to NOT just wash our hands of them, treatment wise. This is the time that spending mental effort will lead to far bigger gains.
It’s the difference between telling someone with broken legs to “walk it off” vs emergency treatment, casts for 6+ weeks, and then physiotherapy where “walk it off” becomes walk on it to rebuild your strength.
The “just try harder” mentality got me into the mess Ive been in. It burnt me out, and it took me decades to even realise how bad I actually was, and years more to even start getting the help I actually needed. Even now, I have to fight for it. 1 slip up, and I’m set back months or years in the process. It’s like putting the hospital A&E department on the 5th floor, with no lifts, and expecting people to walk up if they really want treatment.
As someone else said in another comment a broken foot might be a better metaphor. Or a leg. Two legs even.
You’re telling people with broken feet and legs to just walk to the doctor.
Im not telling people with two broken legs to walk to the doctor. I’m telling them to assess their situation and do what is within their power to do in this moment, which would likely be to call emergency services/ambulance in that metaphor
You have to own your problem to start fixing it or it will never get better. There is no changing that.
I think you kinda have to imagine yourself in a situation where you are despearate and see no way out, except maybe suicide, cause it’s easier and will end the suffering. Then you will get where these people are.
I get where these people are
What are you suggesting? That we just leave these people alone to languish? That to me sounds unbelievably cruel. It’s just under a shitty veneer of pretending to be kind. You’re enabling someone and worsening their quality of life because you don’t want to encounter the idea of discomfort.
The point is you shouldn’t be telling the depressed person how to deal with their illness.
The author of this comic is trying to say that the problem is not the depressed person, the problem is everyone else telling him how to treat his illness.
You’ve got some good advice but you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the point this artist is trying to make.
I wasn’t replying to the comic, I was replying to that person.
Regardless of that the problem is not binary issue. A problem is the people demoralizing the individual, sure, but this is a contributing factor to the individuals inaction. The individuals inaction is a problem as well and for said individual this is the worse of the 2 problems, as it is the main one they can act on. You can complain about other people being tone deaf and that is valid, those people are rude, but it’s not moving you forward
What about affording any of that? OR a home… or getting time off work for the 100th time this year.
Life is often unkind to those who need a bit of kindness the most.
Yea, I was just thinking this morning how fucked up it is that there’s nothing you can do if you’re in this situation to catch up. The world won’t stop moving while you try to figure your shit out and you’re just fucked if you fall behind while trying to deal with it.
Should be a broken foot and everyone tells him to just walk to the doctor
Besides, the hand itself will get in the way of seeing a doctor. How are you gonna fill out paperwork? If you’re depressed, do you trust the doctor?
Like I said, I fully get the metaphor and the point being made. It’s just a funny interpretation.
this, big time. The amount of times where I had migraine with the vision impairment on the day of an appointment, unable to drive and farther away than I could safely get to on my own by any means if I could manage to fumble through any to begin with, and nobody able to bring me.
then just remembering which meds go to my elderly birds, elderly grandparents, and which go to me
If you don’t even go to a doctor because of that hand then I understand why everyone is kinda fed up
self medicate! mushrooms and puppies!
I’m unclear on which one I’m supposed to eat, but I think I’m just going to go for it!
I fed the former to the latter and have a whole situation here right now
You’ll figure it out don’t limit yourself