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Well thats a very liberal application of genocide. The Sand people incident might be spun as a racial killing, but genocide? That’s way too much.
“Just” terrorism.
I’m going to see this comment in my history in a year and be like “…huh?”
Yeah. What he did to the Sand People was a hate crime.
Yeah he hated they made him do it. /s
Bibi moment
Anakin murdered one village, he didn’t prosecute a war of extinction against an entire people.
Partial genocides are still genocides.
Given how thoroughly the Tusken Raiders are narratively linked to American Indians it’s also pretty fucking weird that you’d insist on this point. How many tribes do you get to wipe out before it’s a genocide iyo?
Partial genocides are still genocides.
Completely depends on how big the parts are, otherwise it’s just mass murder. Well I guess intent also plays a role.
he didn’t plan to kill them just to get his mother then flipped his shit. so how is this genocide?
genocide would be like how the US food supply is tainted with GMO horsehit and fake lab chemical ingredients that causes all kinds of slow killing ailments to the American people.
Partial genocides are still genocides.
I’d assume intention makes the difference here: Anakin was lashing out in anger at the ones immediately within reach, like a one-man pogrom, but I don’t know that he commanded an attempt to exterminate their entire kind.
Given how thoroughly the Tusken Raiders are narratively linked to American Indians it’s also pretty fucking weird that you’d insist on this point. How many tribes do you get to wipe out before it’s a genocide iyo?
I honestly wasn’t aware of that narrative link, which may be an artifact of my European cultural perception.
In any case, it wouldn’t change my stance: Massacring one tribe would be a massacre. Done out of racial hatred, it would be a hate crime. The criterion for genocide would be the scale and scope: Is your violence aimed only at a specific tribe?
Attempting to push a particular group from prosperous land has been a motivator for warfare since forever. That’s not what makes a Genocide in my opinion. A genocide is a systematic attempt to eradicate an entire people, not just displace them.
That doesn’t mean massacres or wars of displacement aren’t atrocities either, just that we don’t need to slap the label “genocide” on everything, thereby devaluing its gravity when applied to things where it actually fits (like the war of extermination on the Palestinian people).
Now, if I missed something and Anakin went on to chase down the rest of the Tusken people, that would be genocide too.
I’ve said it a couple times in Lemmy already but the thing I absolutely hate about Star Wars is that the fans don’t know shit about Star Wars
“They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals.”
Bro’s straight up dropping literal dehumanization while screaming about how he killed kids for their race and he “hates them all” within a dozen very memorable lines and you quibbling simpletons can’t figure it out.
I’m not denying his hatred or crime. A massacre born from racist hatred is a pogrom, a hate crime, an atrocity. Anakin isn’t a good guy just because he only butchered one group, and I don’t think anyone is claiming otherwise.
I’m arguing whether the massacre of one group of their race constitutes genocide in terms of scale (local outburst of violence as opposed to a planet-wide persecution) and intent (revenge out of rage and hate born from topical pain as opposed to a persistent effort to eliminate an entire race).
Not every pogrom is genocide. We don’t need to reach for the most extreme terms to describe violence born from racism. In case it needs to be emphasised, Anakin committed a hate crime, incited by grief and rage, but likely fueled by preexisting prejudice.
There really is no need to stoop to insults and condescension about it either. If you have a contribution to make about the subject matter - perhaps because you think I’ve forgotten something - just contribute instead of prefacing and closing it with vitriol.
The thing I hate about Star Wars is how stuck-up and elitist some fans get. God forbid you get something wrong - if you haven’t consumed and intricately memorised every piece of canon (and “Legends”) lore, you’re trash. And because everyone gets something wrong at some point, they all suck and everyone that likes it is an idiot (except me of course, I know everything). Damn Star Wars Fans, they ruined Star Wars!
That isn’t the environment any fandom should foster. If you love something, help others love it too! If someone gets something wrong or doesn’t know something, share what you know. If someone holds a position you disagree with, talk to them and figure out where you disagree. Be part of the reason someone says “I fucking love Star Wars”. Let’s love it together.
🤡
Among so many other things, pogroms are genocides, great mind.
So if someone goes and murders ever Parisian it is not a genocide of Parisians? Or are some people lesser and their cultures dont matter as much?
It would certainly be an atrocity, if that’s what you’re getting at. There is no less value to Palestinian or Native American lives than to European ones. Genocide, however, is the systematic persecution with the intent to eliminate a certain ethnic group.
The difficulty in your example arises with defining that “genus” in the modern sense of genocide, since “Parisian” is a very diverse mix of people. What makes them “Parisian”?
If their common association is, say, having their primary residence in Paris, or having been in Paris during a certain point or stretch in time, I suppose we could coin the term “urbicide”, but I don’t know if there’s a historical precedent for the systematic persecution of a specific city by whatever definition.
There is the historic phenomenon of soldiers wantonly slaughtering a chunk of the populace of a captured city, but if you wanted to actually use the administrative and productive value of that city you’d want to keep the killing in check. On the other hand, raiding other tribes or villages and killing inhabitants with the purpose of driving them away from your lands also involved the murder of civilians, but the intent was foremost to secure resources and prosperous land for your own people.
Failing any other classification, it would still be a massacre. We don’t need to slap particularly loaded labels onto everything bad to make it bad. Doing so dilutes the meaning of those terms, watering down both their political weight and their usefulness in classifying events.
Genocide:
the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
Cultural group means killing any village unless it has an identical twin with the same language, history, principles, beliefs, music, etc, means it will be genocide.
I don’t recall ani going there to wipe them out, only to get his mother. then the killings happened when she died in his arms. so how is this “… systemically…”
The system was a mix of his lightsaber and the force, moving 1 to the next…? Whether it was passion, right or wrong it doesn’t matter to the definition of the term.
A riot is a riot whether or not the riot was for a good reason. Terms be like that usually.
So if someone said they intentionally murdered all of a tribe, you wouldn’t consider it genocide?
Sand people is more of a word like Native Americans.
So it would be like if he went and intentionally murdered all of the Cherokee because the actions of one/some Cherokee.
Sure he didn’t hunt down the Seminoles afterwards, but the Cherokee have their own culture and beliefs.
As for the Jedi… His orders were to kill everyone of a certain religion. He stated with the younglings and then spent over a decade hunting down anyone who escaped.
It’s more like he murdered all of a single Cherokee village. Still awful, but the Cherokee nation still exists.
I suppose if we will compare fantasy to reality to Wookiepedia we go
"A nomadic culture,[14] Tusken clan groups consisted of 20 to 30 individuals, and were led by clan leaders, tribal chiefs,[7] and warlords.[8] Tuskens traveled in single file to hide the number of individuals in their party.[15] The culture of different tribes varied greatly, with some surviving by killing outsiders, while other tribes used more peaceful means.[7] "
The description of his onslaught had over 2 dozen huts, where “I…I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children too. They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals.”
I would draw from that information that they had varied cultures, and he slaughtered one indiscriminately.
Thus completely wiping out their tribes culture, and of course the individuals as well. I’m not sure how that wouldn’t fall under genocide.
I love how when he kills the kids she’s like ‘no! He wouldn’t! He couldn’t!’ would really She should have been like ‘yeah he does that sometimes. Killed a bunch of sand people a few years back. I still sucked his dick.’
Chicks will do anything for Chad.
ew dude
Well he started early with the violence so it wasn’t unexpected if you ask me.
His first time was shortly after he tried what those in the scene refer to as “spinning”. All that violence happened while he was still high on the rush from that very first spin of his. It seemed like a “good trick” at the time, but like with many other a vulnerable youth before him and after him, it was nothing but a “gateway trick”, that started him down a dark side-path in life, where he, hungry for more, would seek out dangerous knowledge on how to perform increasingly darker and darker “tricks”. But that path inevitably leads to oblivion, for anyone who takes it. He ended up destroying not only those he loved, as well as many innocents who happened to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time, along the way, until his addiction to these tricks would eventually claim its final victim - namely himself.
And that’s why you should always say “NO!” to spinning! It might seem tempting and harmless, when a friend offers you just a little spin, right? But that person is not your friend, and that spin is anything but harmless. So, take the Spin-Free Pledge with me and all of your friends today, and you will be able to take home your very own SpinNot™ diploma to hang on your wall. And when some hoodlum on the street offers you a spin, remember these words, which will surely make him reevaluate his own life decisions in quiet shame, as you loudly and proudly tell him:
Spinning - not even once!
Not to worry, they’re still flying half a space station
Were there any living beings on that thing? I only remember there being droids
I subscribe to the view that droids are people too. A consciousness is a consciousness.
Anakin also subscribes to that idea, given how well he treats R2D2 and C3PO
There were Nemoidians controlling it from the central orb. Probably not very many but at least a couple dozen if not more.
They don’t count.
I don’t know why, but this comment made me burst out laughing. Well played.
That’s droidist.
I just realized that Anakin committed a mass murder in each prequel movie.
First one is the ship, third one is the childeren.
What did he do in the second one? Clone wars is a huge blank in my memory hahaSand people (I don’t recall their actual name)
Sand people
Holy shit dude, it’s 2024
I just laughed way, way too hard at this.
I’m sorry! Anakin killed them all, so I couldn’t ask what their preferred name is! 😢
Yeah the most polite thing to do is ask what specific tribe they are.
Of course, they’re going to stab you with a gaffi stick, but you should ask
Anakin: I’m tired of you people
Tusken Raiders: What do you mean “you people”?
Dude, “sand people” is not the preferred nomenclature. Tatooine-American, please.
Inb4 “the whole Outer Rim is AmErIcA” group.
We’re all living in Amerika. Coca-Cola. Always war.
Isn’t the original line “sometimes war”? Or am I misremembering the lyrics.
Was the ship a mass-murder? It was droid federation. How many Nemodians were actually abord?
Droids are people too
The Tusken villagers.
Tusken Raiders
I always found it fascinating that Darth Vader created C3PO.
C-3PO was a parts kit. It wasn’t that Anakin designed his own brand new droid, he gathered enough parts from scrap yards to mash together his own based on schematics that would have been available to anyone who regularly works on droids. In our time it was about as impressive of a feat as building a bookshelf out of lumber you salvaged from a local dump pile. Impressive for a boy that age, but anyone with the time and tools could do it.
In our time it was about as impressive of a feat as building a bookshelf out of lumber you salvaged from a local dump pile.
Ehhh, I would say it’s probably more like assembling a functioning PC out of various parts found in dumpsters, etc. Definitely a much more impressive feat imo
I’d say assembling a functional PC from dumpster parts is far far far far far easier than even building a bookshelf from raw lumber. Computer parts are designed to go together (excepting Macintosh computers of course). You just have to wait for one that functions.
Who said it needed to be a nice bookshelf?
Red oak. Hand cut on an antique mitre box. Fuckin miserable lol. I’ll build computers all day.
From well kept recycled parts which are labeled? Not much of a challenge.
From DUMPSTER parts? I’d say that’s more impressive, as you need the knowledge and tools to know what works and what doesn’t.
Yeah, sure, given a limitless timeframe, you can sit there until you get lucky enough for someone to drop a completely functioning but disassembled PC on your lap. But building one? You might need to clean parts, research what they are to get the proper drivers and OS even if you manage to find a set that actually fits together. Tracking down and fixing tiny shorts in circuits? That’s not the same skills as putting together some Legos.
I’ve been in IT support in cities and schools and even when there’s a massive pile of computers and hardware that are known to not be broken, it’s sometimes a challenge.
You know how hard it is building a bookshelf? Take a piece of wood. Put book(s) on it. Now you’ve a bookshelf.
So many electronics are thrown out every day, that I’d wager you could find everything you need in just a day. The biggest issue is that they throw things in dumpsters, rather than gently putting them there, which tends to break electronics. But then again there’s so much garbage you could probably find ten of every component and see what works
and things are usually thrown out cause they are new and work great
Do you want to build a computer or a brand new computer? And no, most PCs are not thrown away because all components inside stopped working. It’s usually either because they’re too slow for the user or just one component broke and the user was incapable of fixing the problem and opted to get a new faster machine instead.
My son is about Anakin’s age from SW I. LOL, he’s too uncoordinated to learn a box knife, let alone a power saw.
He also built a race car. And won a race with it.
Red neck rockets strapped to a chair that drift vs recycled multilingual protocol droid.
Going to have to know information to make a determination.
My fascination is with the derpy friendly nature of C3PO and him aiding in his own creators downbringing. The stark contrast between Vader and C3PO. One would not assume they were related. Im indifferent to Anakins tech skills.
I guess the implication is that given it’s a kit build, anyone else building to such schematics would get a droid with the same derpy friendly nature since that’s presumably what it’s designed to be like.
The other protocol droids we meet are a lot less emotional. They’re all business, don’t speak when spoken to most of the time. They wouldn’t brag about being programmed for over 6 million types of communication. They wouldn’t get into an argument with an R2 unit. They wouldn’t mourn their masters being crushed by a trash compactor.
Well I must admit I’ve only really seen bits of various Star Wars films save for being taken to see Episode 1 as a kid so I don’t really know much about it, besides what you can pick up from pop culture, I was just following what seemed a logical inference. Are “protocol droids” one and the same as whatever C3P0 is? I guess I figured a “kit build” in my mind is something like an amateur, enthusiast’s project for kids or something so the fun and silly “personality” would be part and parcel with that design while ubiquitous robots made for more serious utilitarian reasons would I guess be less inclined have such features as they’d not be of great use to anyone.
Protocol droids are butlers, ambassadors, and receptionists. “I am fluent in over six million forms of communication.” He’s a translator. Luke’s uncle bought him to translate R2-D2’s beeps and whirrs into basic (the language Luke speaks). On starships, they’re used for jobs like communicating with highly alien life forms, serving drinks, and delegating to droid crews. Jabba the Hutt has a protocol droid to translate for him, because he thinks he’s too important to deign to speak basic like some commoner, and not every visitor knows Huttese. After Anakin meets Padme, he ends up giving C3PO to her, because as a queen/senator/ambassador, he’s way more useful to her.
In short, Anakin made a super fancy high society robot that’s mostly useless for any kind of manual labour, and made him way more annoying than diplomat robots are supposed to be.
And this makes a lot of sense, because Anakin’s day job is working on pit droids and other kinds of useful technology. He’s an expert on that. Anakin’s hobby project was something completely useless to him and his boss, made from parts that nobody cared about. But making a fancy domestic servant robot to help your mum out around the house is a really sweet thing for a kid to do.
Killing multiple people all at once is mass-murder, not genocide.
Even the younglings?
Even the younglings. Unless he kills all younglings everywhere, Pharaoh Ramses style.
Wiping out (or trying to) an ethnicity or culture is genocide. While he was not the sole perpetrator of the Jedi genocide, he was a major participant
Netanyahu enters the chat
Can he leave the
worldchat?
Yeah.
Blowing up Aldaran? Genocide. Killing all the Jedi? Genocide. Killing a village of Sand People? Not genocide.
Padme, listen to yourself!!
From what we see in The Book of Boba Fett, Tusken Riders are a very isolated populace and every village is completely independent from each other so the one that Anakin killed probably had their own different culture and traditions that will never be recovered. He also targeted everyone in the village because they were sand people, so it kinda is genocide.
Anakin: Yeah! Semantics, bitch!
