toxic masculinity, tons of people aware of the bad things but most people think its taboo for men to think about their social reformation.
Some of my more well versed lady friends basically describe it like “the women can’t do all the social reformation, men gotta do their part too”
Would be nice to make this thread into a list of resources, like groups, YouTube channels, websites, books, whatever.
It would be very helpful to define these things for people too I think, I don’t think there is a name for men’s social revolution yet, or at least one that is well known.
I find the point being looking at toxic traits and seeing what the normal version of that is. In example: Men showing emotion being viewed as weak, and other men bullying or belittling those that do. Obviously you’re not going to pursue being more emotional, but you can be there for young boys that are in your life and tell them it’s okay to experience these things. Teach proper coping mechanisms, or learn them yourself if you need to. Another example would be wardrobe. My dad was huge on black being some sort of gateway to god knows wtf he thought. Also thought dudes wearing nail polish was absolutely unacceptable. Am I going to go around trying to force myself to wear those things now? Nah, not my style, but if my kids want to wear certain colors or paint their nails I’ll make damn sure they done feel immasculated because of those choices. Idk it’s weird to me to paint things definitively as ‘healthy masculinity’ and more of a ‘these behaviors obviously aren’t normal’. Healthy masculinity would be just returning to being a normal, feeling, caring human being. Maybe my view is skewed or something, idk. Happy to hear what others think.
You are entirely right in my opinion, society is pretty sucky at making things right for people and so for now this concept of cultivating a mature personality aimed at men is as close as we can get for a simpler way to describe to a general group of people
Healthy masculinity is understanding that many younger men look up to you, so you must be a role model for them. Manifest that in whatever way you believe is best, and you are a healthy masculine person. (This is just, like, my opinion)
This a good one
The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks.
Just do what you think is best, that’s all you need to know.
If you haven’t read The Will To Change by bell hooks it is definitely worth a read. It is a cure to the toxic gender wars of the 2010s and today and is a compassionate look at masculinity as a whole. I highly recommend it.
Just some advice for other men. “Reason is, and ought to be the slave of the passions.” Fellas, listen to your heart and speak your truth. You can’t think your way out of feeling; your heart gives no fucks about reason or correctness. Be gentle with yourself, be honest, and don’t suppress yourself. We are all complex primates who require complex care. Care for yourself.
“Reason is, and ought to be the slave of the passions.” Fuck no. Think before you act. Communicate before you decide. You are person not an animal.
Hell, even animals can be trained to varying degrees.
Feel - acknowledge - think - act
No it goes
act - act - act ow when did my back break
Feel - acknowledge - think - act. You’re welcome
Oh man I cant believe I forgot to mention Adam Savage, that dude is a legend of a role model. He uploads to youtube nearly daily
Also, sleep, diet, exercise.
I’ve been getting into that the past year or so and I wish somebody told me sooner that if you get this basics right, you essentially become a 10x better version of yourself in everything lol
Work to develop emotional stability and security in being oneself. For me, that was many years of therapy learning to love myself. I got there in 2019, but the work continues. I’m the healthiest, mentally and emotionally, that I’ve ever been in my life. I truly did not believe I could ever make it as far as I have on this journey.
The Lord of the Rings. Aragorn is a perfect example of positive masculinity. Strong, brave, a good leader, emotionally available and connected to all his friends. Sam and Frodo are also very positive. Books and films are good. Cinema Therapy YouTube channel has a few episodes on the lord of the rings and they are all good watches. The Aragorn one covers positive masculinity I think.
Aragorn also abandoned his duties for decades because he was overwhelmed with feelings of inadequacy. No matter how good you are, it is also ok to forgive yourself for not being perfect or having genetic skeletons in your closet.
Fuck kings but I’m going to defend the rightful King of Gondor for a minute here.
Aragorn in the movie might be said to have done this, although that’s also debatable. Book Aragorn is different. He didn’t abandon his duties due to feelings of inadequacy, that is just in the films. In the book Aragorn didn’t immediately claim his title but not because he felt inadequate. Aragorn went around for decades traveling and working throughout Middle earth, and Arda generally, to organize and gain support among the people and sectors of power. He didn’t want to claim it just because he was born to inherit it, he wanted to work for it in some sense. He was fulfilling his duties throughout Middle earth. That being said, he was always very confident about being king and that he would return, but they didn’t feel that would play well in the movie so they made him that way to make him more sympathetic.
Embrace the skeletons, have them work for you, even!
In more general spaces I find bringing it up instantly summons incels, unfortunately.
IMO “developing” “masculinity”—“proper” or otherwise—is a fool’s errand. I don’t much care what various & sundry people think “masculinity” is or isn’t, and I’m not much interested in meeting the performance criteria of their varied & contradictory masculinities. I don’t hang out with the kinds of people who gatekeep gender.
Toxic masculinity (femininity) are negative behaviours associated with men (women), but anyone of any gender can have toxic masculine traits / toxic feminine traits. They are labelled toxic masculinity (femininity) to emphasize that men (women) should be particularly cautious about developing such traits. Learning how to recognize such traits in oneself is important. No gender is gatekept here – the only gatekeeping is “don’t be toxic.”
That said, the terminology is provocative, and it’s the kind of thing which drives people away from the left, so we should really rebrand it.
One resource that jumps to me is a book called “The Way of the Superior Man”. While I don’t agree with or remember everything in it, I remember it being something that helped me become a better man. Also Aragorn from Lord of the Rings as a fiction role model, little harder for a non-fiction one. Someone mentioned healthygamerGG, Henry Cavill?
The Way of the Superior Man is an excellent read. Again, not all of it is necessarily correct, but the basic idea of polarity/equal and opposite absolutely hits the nail on the head.
If you happen to be located near Amsterdam Linda runs some really good workshops based on his work.
https://hipsy.nl/event/86956-be-the-magnet-tantra-training-for-men-part1
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You don’t need masculinity. If you identify as a man, that’s as manly as you need to be.
The point isn’t about moving the goalpost so you win, it is meeting up with a better standard.
I’m 59 now, and a cancer survivor. Also a man.
I look back to the me in my twenties, and think what an ass I was. Not as a man, but as a human.
The positive aspect? I’m not that ass anymore, and my hope is in another ten years I’ll see the current me as an ass.
Introspection and personal growth as a human. Sex or gender agnostic.
The problem in your logic is that this would require a set definition on what masculinity is. What if one doesnt meet those criteria?
Not only does a definition exist in various forms, or at least enough of one to figure it out but the assumption I’m making is that none of us meet the criteria and should aim to be better people.
I think a key trait of masculinity is developing the capacity to decide for yourself what that means, whilst not imposing it on others as expectations, on any gender
This assumes that it means specific things like enjoying flowers, its leaving behind the boyish immaturity.
Sorry, you lost me with that.
I agree with the second part, that growing up is a big aspect of becoming a man.
I’m saying I don’t agree with it being specific things
