• PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Vegans argued that cats, which are obligate carnivores, can eat a vegan diet safely. Lemmy.world admin removed the posts for being misinformation, and the vegan community threw a fit over it.

    • Chozo@fedia.io
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      4 months ago

      Ask your vet what they think about a vegan diet for your pets. They will tell you “no”. That should really be the end to the discussion, but I guess these guys think they know better than actual experts.

      • Donkter@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        It’s so sad, because veganism is a good force in our culture. Look at all of the vegan meat alternatives and more and more restaurants that have to have at least vegetarian options in certain areas. That wasn’t a thing 20 years ago.

        Vegan diets help the environment and improve health. But many vegans get this brain rot, probably a consequence of a superiority complex where they have to police everything around them. It happens in a lot of communities.

        I’m not a vegan. But the idea has me eating less and less meat every year.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I imagine most vegans are just ordinary people. And hell, good on them for making the environmentally friendly choice. I’ve been excited that my local stores are starting to carry plant-based alternatives that aren’t expensive as hell. Fuck are the weirdos loud, though.

          • 2001aCentenaryofFederation@fedia.io
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            4 months ago

            Impossible burgers are better than beef burgers and I’m fully prepared to die on this hill.

            But I still eat meat, I just like that there’s options

            • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I wouldn’t mind switching to a complete vegetarian diet if they can get deep-fried chicken substitutes right.

              • Donkter@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                I really really like Quorn (or however it’s spelled) as a chicken substitute. The flavor has to be added artificially but I think the texture is pretty satisfying and reminds me of chicken.

              • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                4 months ago

                There was a recent blind taste test for chicken nuggets (not chicken strips/tenders) and all the plant based nuggets, even the cheap ones, beat out the actual chicken ones.

                Now, chicken strips, I agree with you, sadly.

            • Gerudo@lemm.ee
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              4 months ago

              Not better…but 95% there. I will order it anytime I can if it’s reasonable price.

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          Remember you’re only seeing the very online vegan.

            • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I knew a vegan who was a nice guy. He wasn’t obnoxious about his veganism. He was, however, obnoxious about his Christianity.

              And to be honest, he looked a bit malnourished.

        • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          Okay, I troll the hell out of vegans online, because it’s easy and always entertaining. So, anyone coming along after this, take that into account.

          But, you nailed it. There’s a subsection of vegans that treat it like a religion, and anyone else as infidels. That superiority complex, the smugness is a huge detriment to vegan living and principles.

          But (and here’s why I made the disclaimer), they’re a minority overall. I know too many vegans irl that are chill, wonderful people following their beliefs and ideals without being jerks about it. Vegetarians too, though that’s tangential.

          It’s really online that the asshole hats get put on the most, and usually only on sites/services that make it easy to be anonymous. Which is a good thing! Anonymous discourse is not just important, it’s vital to part of humans becoming better than what we are. But there will always be people that hide their true selves until they’re anonymous and can feel safe, and that includes people that are smug, arrogant assholes down deep. It also includes people that don’t feel safe being an outsider or dissenter, and people that are awesome down deep, but have to keep up a front irl.

          Anyway my point is that we, the non vegans of the world, have to be careful to not forget the human. Vegans are mostly deeply compassionate, kind souls that want the best for anyone and everyone, including animals. We don’t have to agree with them, just remember that the loudest, most obnoxious voices aren’t the sum total of the vegan community.

          • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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            4 months ago

            I have a live and let live attitude to veganism vs carnism. No living being should be forced to be a vegan, no living being should be forced to be a carnist, and no living being should be forced to be a hamburger. Can’t we just end all the aggression and live peacefully?

        • Zier@fedia.io
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          4 months ago

          I think people confuse the Political Based Vegan lifestyle and the Dietary Plant-based Vegan. They are not the same. Most people hate the political wing because they just cannot shut up. I do not want to be subjected to your religion, and you are not helping the animals you claim to. Dietary people just choose healthier options for themselves and don’t evangelize to others.

          • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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            4 months ago

            This checks the Vegan Bullshit Bingo:
            Calling veganism a religion sounds like an attempt at discrediting it as unreasonable and irrational, just to not seriously deal with it. As veganism is based on facts, logic and common sense, it is the exact opposite of a religion. Consuming animal products though, mostly means blindly following irrational traditions and ignoring the facts or refusing them by reasoning: “That’s how we’ve always done it”. That sounds more like a religion to me…

            • strongarm@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              4 months ago

              No one said veganism is a religion, but it IS a political standpoint and philosophical and moral practice.

              Just read the first two paragraphs of wikipedia, it makes it clear.

              Following a plant based diet is one thing, being a Vegan is different.

              • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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                4 months ago

                You are a carnist. That’s a political standpoint and philosophical and moral practice as well. You might not consider youself a carnist, you think you’re just normal because eating like a handfull of animals and drinking one animals mothers milk was normalised to you from birth. I was raised a carnist too. Yet it’s a decision, not a necessity. We don’t need meat and milk to survive, we choose to kill animals because we are accustumed to the taste. So we keep the system running.

              • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                4 months ago

                Yeah! Someone could be vegetarian for lots of sensible reasons, like religion or fad diets. But veganism is based on the idea that slavery is wrong, which makes it bad.

            • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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              4 months ago

              Einstein said that common sense is the sum of prejudices acquired by the average person by age 18. Religions survive because of common sense. Because of biases taught to children and taken as fact because of their ubiquity. Anything based on common sense is a religion. If veganism is based on common sense, then veganism is no different from any other cult. I’ll never agree with anything based on common sense.

        • kemsat@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I get the climate change vegans, but not the hurt animals vegans. We live on earth, and in case people haven’t noticed, we have to kill to survive. If you don’t eat meat, you’re still hurting plants to eat, and most of the time we’re eating the sexual organs or the offspring of plants.

        • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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          4 months ago

          The outrageous vegans make the more moderate ones look reasonable to carnists, which increases the rate of adopting veganism.

          • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            No, they definitely don’t. Because you don’t know what type you’re dealing with until it’s too late.

      • finestnothing@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        My MIL likes to pull out the phrase “indoctornated” anytime a doctor/vet/educated professional disagrees with her hardcore plant based diet views for all people and animals

      • PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        “But someone who calls themselves a professor made a 4 hour long YouTube essay on how they caaan be vegan come on click the link!!!”

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        I think it can be done for dog if you are careful and know what you are doing. However, I still wouldn’t prioritize ethical views over the well being of my pets. That is very much animal abuse.

        • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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          4 months ago

          This. This exactly. I’m very poor so I can’t always afford to buy food for myself or my dog. So when times are tough, I kidnap the neighbours’ children and feed them to Fido. I’m not going to starve my dog, that’s animal abuse.

    • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Jeez that is awful! People: if you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit! They are so sweet! There are tons of them in the shelter system, especially after Easter.

      I swear they’re the funniest and most affectionate four legged friends around!

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        I have heard that they’re little fucks, they’ll just bounce to your leg to bite it and shit.

        • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          My rabbit never bit me even once over his entire life. He gave lots of kisses though. And he loved coming over for pets and then running and jumping and spinning around in the air.

          Every rabbit has a different personality. They aren’t the smartest pets around but they can be trained not to do the things you don’t want them to do, such as biting. They remember best when you get their attention with something that provokes a fear based response, such as a sharp “no!” That’s all it took for my bunny.

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 months ago

      I really hate how many people are spreading disinfo for no reason here. We should be better than that.

      The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional.

      The admins then overstepped and removed such comments.

      I’m not going to argue the validity of any of those claims as I’m not a vegan and I don’t care to research, but the vegan mods were a lot more reasonable than they’re being painted here.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        The pet sector must die, pet ownership isn’t vegan, pet breeders are the enemies;

        We’re not doing “optimal nutrition”, sorry. That biohacking shit to create immortal adopted pets isn’t going to work out. It’s hardly even clear for humans what the optimal diet is, and they pretend that they know what it is for cats??? These fools don’t even comprehend that evolution doesn’t give a shit about longevity. It’s a standard imposed by the marketing agencies of pet foods who want to milk pet owner feelings to have their pets die after they do. It’s a false standard that is great for advertising, but otherwise functions as a Nirvana fallacy machine.

        This is just a rephrase, but pet ownership is bourgeois. Well, aristocratic, then bourgeois. Detach. This isn’t about you, you don’t get to annex a sentient being just to keep them as an emotional service slave or as a status symbol. This one is especially for Americans where pets live better than poor people.

        Uh. Hardly reasonable.

        • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          Yeah, that’s well and truly off the deep end. This is someone who I’d cross the road to avoid.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 months ago

          Are you just posting a random comment to me or what? What relevance does this have to the admin retaliations?

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            That’s one of the Vegan mods on .world expressing their views on vegan diets for cats. That’s not “The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional.”, that’s outright “Science doesn’t know shit” lunacy.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              4 months ago

              That’s not the comment which caused this whole issue. It seems to me you’re cherry picking out of context

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Alright, since “Things the mods have said” isn’t acceptable evidence for whether or not the mods are pushing ridiculous views on vegan diets for cats, and not just “The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional”, I suppose them saying the ASPCA doesn’t know what they’re talking about, while THEIR simple ‘common sense’ allows them to understand a cat’s TRUE dietary needs is also kosher?

                This whole thing comes down to aggressively anti-scientific mods pushing misinformation and removing information to the contrary and getting removed by an admin for their troubles. Or was removing the link to the ASPCA for being ‘misinformation’ also a sign of how reasonable the c/Vegan mods were?

                I don’t give a single solitary fuck what happens to Rooki. Whether they were too quick to remove or too uncivil or what. But defending misinformation, or defending mods pushing misinformation as just being reasonable? That gets my dander up.

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  4 months ago

                  The commentary you’re pointing is way more reasonable than you make it sound. I implore people to read the context themselves and not to trust summaries with rage bait agendas here.

                  Stop doing the reddit thing. Making people angry at people more radical than them isn’t helping.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    The commentary you’re pointing is way more reasonable than you make it sound.

                    No, it’s just politely worded. That’s not reasonable. That’s civility politics.

                    I implore people to read the context themselves and not to trust summaries with rage bait agendas here.

                    I agree. They absolutely should read the context, and the modlog.

                    Stop doing the reddit thing. Making people angry at people more radical than them isn’t helping.

                    Should people… not be angry at those who spread misinformation and suppress actual information to the contrary? Is there a ‘get out of jail free’ card you get once you get radical enough that permits you to spread misinformation, no moral qualms necessary? Whether they’re ‘more radical’ or less shouldn’t fucking matter, even assuming such a linear evaluation was valid.

              • Lightor@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago
                • Someone claims mods were being reasonable
                • Post quote showing they are not being reasonable
                • “Stop cherry picking”

                Wut…

              • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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                4 months ago

                If that’s what the community moderators are saying, I imagine the comment section was far worse than you’re making out.

          • Lightor@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            The context of the convo was vegan admins, that was a comment by one. Are you really having that much trouble following the convo?

      • Summzashi@lemmy.one
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        4 months ago

        Good. I don’t give a shit about what you put in your mouth. But if you think it’s ok to give your pets a shit load of supplements for no reason at all other than forcing your extremism on helpless animals you’re out of your mind.

    • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      As a vegan who spends no time associating with other vegans, because it’s not a large part of my identity (other than watching cooking videos), these people are idiots who are getting high on being righteous.

      So much so they overdosed and became animal abusers.

      Quite ironic. Funny, if it weren’t causing harm.