hi, I only see the negative parts of life, and am impossible to enjoy things around
How about the parts where wealthy were taxed at a 90% rate over $100k and you could comfortably live on a single income with a family of 4 in a home you fully owned after 15 years while not needing medical insurance because even a broken leg was gonna cost you like $20 out of pocket.
How about that portion. The one when government corruption would get you thrown out and was seen as shameful. Don’t ignore the good parts of the old days and just focus on the bad parts.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today. How do you think things got so fucked up today? Yesterday’s corruption made it all happen. However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today.
No, it didn’t. The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
Today’s politicians do stuff out in the open that only a few politicians in the past would try to do behind closed doors (Nixon has got to be doing cartwheels in his coffin right now). You can notice the big difference and how things are today, versus in the past. The quiet parts are now done in the open.
There was always a push and pull between corruption and ethics in politics. However yesterday’s politicians tried a lot harder to make sure the middle class was doing okay overall, before they started doing corrupt things for themselves. Today’s politicians just want to use everything around them for their own benefit, without regards to anything else.
We’re truly living in weird times right now, politically. The unspoken rules of politics are being ignored.
I’m not sure I’d say it’s exact, but some of the political norms you’re describing appear to have been extremely short-lived. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to get them back or rue their loss.
Machine politics with power structures like in Tammany hall seem to have been popular for quite a while.
but some of the political norms you’re describing appear to have been extremely short-lived.
I disagree. They have been around for many decades, if not centuries.
Never heard of things like people heckling during the State of the Union Address until recent modern times, etc.
Politicians are no longer following a lot of the unwritten rules that they used to.
The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
I already said:
However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
Well, you did use the word exactly…
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today.
I was pushing back against that terminology. Some of the argument overlaps. I don’t believe I’m being too nuanced for the conversation being had.
I see. You took my word choice literally. It was hyperbolic.
…and yet anyone who wasn’t a white dude wasn’t allowed any of those property benefits you’re touting.
Funny that you mention medical expenses were lower when there was no penicillin so a broken leg or pregnancy had a much higher death rate.
And medical for women was treated as a mystery.
And medical for most minorities was essentially non existent.
‘Just focusing on the bad parts’ is the dismissive way to describe everyone else’s experience while existing outside the white dude bubble.
If you knew anything of American history you’d know I’m referring to the 1950s. Penicillin was discovered in the 1920’s, women were mystery boxes given vibrators for hysteria and such in the 1890’s, and women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s. Really the only exceptionally bad thing still going on by the 50s that you mentioned was the racial one.
Aside from all that, you want to argue about a non point. I literally acknowledged in my post that there was bad shit about the “good old days”. I was pointing out that there was also actual good things that we no longer have.
I don’t think women could get credit cards until the 70’s, so things aren’t perfect for them and the jobs and salary gaps were even more skewed then. But ya, at least penicillin was a thing.
Im not sure if women could get credit cards in the 50’s, but almost no one had credit cards in the 50’s. They didn’t really go mainstream till the late 60’s and up through all the 80’s I remember most people still just using cash or checks. You had a credit card and it needed to go on a manual little machine with a slip of paper over the top that made a “rubbing” of the card for the store to have a copy.
Hell. Credit scores didn’t even exist till like the mid 80’s.
women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s
This is a really misinformed idea of the time period. Women could have jobs and own property, but often informally required a man’s permission.
Want a loan, healthcare, start a business, etc.? Does your father/husband know about this?
If you were married with kids and your husband left - you absolutely had to find a new male partner. Life was nearly unnavigable without a male counterpart, and in many places single mothers were shunned - the social pressure was enormous.
Go watch a TV up into the 80s. Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
So yeah, tax rates and wages for a particular type of person may have sane, don’t expect LGBTQ+, women, or POC to look upon the time period fondly.
Your reaction to this photo (1956) shouldn’t be, ’ but look, negroes could afford nice dresses’.
Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
To be fair, everything in MASH cued a laugh track. It got so bad to the point that Alan Alda insisted on an episode where no laugh track was used at all, whatsoever.
CBS was really hardcore about forcing them to use laugh tracks on everything. I was honestly surprised they didn’t try to sneak one in when Henry Blake died.
I think they finally got rid of the laugh tracks in season 11.
You showed a picture of a racial thing. That’s literally the only thing I specified in my post saying that it WAS still bad in the 50’s.
So…I agree. Still. Just as I did before you posted the pic.
Also, I’m sorry society consisting of all the men and women gave societal pressure to be a housewife, because men and women pressured that societal norm.
For most the american dream has always been primarily just that, a dream.
That cannot be repeated enough because there are very powerful narratives (as old as civilization probably) that want to tell and retell stories about how things used to be better that have no grounding in reality.
You are right though, a decent amount of people actually did get to live the american dream, the US used to be a lot less hostile to a middle class existing. So long as we talk about it with the recognition that many, many, many people were excluded from that dream for bullshit reasons it is an extremely salient point to say virtually no one except the ultra wealthy is living any kind of dream in the US anymore…. which for it is worth is the impression I got from what you were saying.
based lol
As a more progressive guy who owns solar panels, drives an EV, and been moving over to plant based meat substitutes a few times a week, yeah, I do miss the era of the old cars, they had style along with their absolutely crap gas mileage.
Don’t miss the overt racism that went along with it of course.
I just want physical controls in my car.
Oh, and if they’re going to let these 6L-flat-grill-death-plow-4’-bed-hemi trucks drive around as folks commuter vehicles can I at least get the banned 80s flip up head lights back?
Someday I would love to drop the body of a '55 Chevy on an EV frame. Really bored by car styles these days for the most part but love the stuff that goes inside them quite a lot.
I’m in a similar spot. I love everything about old 50s era cars but the milage. I love how nice they look. I love how fun they are to work on. I love the cooshiy bench seats. I love the feel of how all the switches and nobs cuthunk all the time. Really I just want a modern engine and transmission to make my bel air a practical car in me modern day. Hell considering how fast I drive I’d be down to engine swapping it with a Prius or something like that. I’ve heard that Corvettes are ridiculously fual efficient despite being a sport car so I should really get around to seeing if thad make my car fast and practical.
I’d love to have a 67 Mustang GT Fastback as an EV with dual motors.
I don’t have an EV, but I’d like an electric mid-sized utility truck that has physical controls, a good radio, and some thought given to durability and repair concerns. As long as they’re all cars or trucks with touch screens and remote software updates, I’m not interested.
Here’s an actual good one “i just miss when it was possible to buy a house with a single income at minimum wage”
What’s wrong with that?
Nothing, that’s the point. The comic is trying to make it look as though there is nothing from the olden days that was better I’m simply pointing out that I can also cherry pick examples
Ah, apologies for the misunderstanding
Or work part time and put yourself through college. That would be nice…
Or just graduate high school and get a job that let’s you own a home.
This pretty much sums up the state of things. The entire past has now been labeled as “the dark ages”, from which we’ve just recently crawled.
Everything an old person says is instantly ignored and “handled” by formulaic responses invoking the pure evil that is all things past.
Want to discuss poetry? Don’t forget our emergence from the oppression of the past.
Want to discuss recipes for chocolate chip cookies? Don’t forget our emergence from the oppression of the past.
Oh were you talking about old cars? Don’t forget our ongoing emergence from the oppression of the past.
It’s a broken record posing as a heroic worldview.
Everything an old person says is instantly ignored and “handled” by formulaic responses invoking the pure evil that is all things past.
recently learnt about the term “thought terminating cliche” -
I miss the good old times before rampant enshittification…
The 90s?
Yeah. Before AOL and the Eternal September, about a decade before I was born. Those were the days.
The 70s? The 60s? Before everything was ruined by ASCII adding lowercase letters?
EBCDIC FTW!!!
Back when FTW meant Fuck The World
Back when FTW meant Fuck The World
And FTFY meant Fuck This. Fuck You.
I thankfully wasn’t aware there’s an alternative interpretation for that one. I’ll give the modern interpretation of FTW - insofar as I can tell it sprung up organically, not as some intentional “reclaiming” of negative concepts/language.
2015
When Russia seemed like it could become a sane nation.
When each decade had a distinctive style in clothing, music, etc.
When movies had feelings.
When social media wasn’t.
When each new generation of computers doubled the performance.
When Donald Trump was just a washed up businessclown.
When Israel hadn’t been created yet.
When the population crisis in west was just a future problem.
When men wore wigs and pantyhoses.
When the climate crisis was just a future problem.
–
Plenty of reasons to yearn some parts of yesterdecades in 2024.
I too yearn for 10 million bce.
Fear not! Judging by the pictures I’ve seen online, men can still wear wigs and pantyhoses. And makeup, and pink colors and high heels.
The old days when music was music, not synthesized ass voices
Don’t worry vehicles get about that now.
Nostalgia is a trick of the mind to make you ignore the fact that one day you’ll be dead and no one alive would remember that you even existed, and they’ll go on as if nothing was lost.
Hey, you and the woman in that comic will get along great!
Oooh, an opportunity for a little bit longer of an article, don’t mind if I do.
I think it’s interesting to what extent people miss reasonable things about the past, but also, don’t really understand why things have changed and moved in the direction that they’ve moved in. They just kind of lament the slow death of the past, and that’s about it. There’s no through-line, it’s just a series of disconnected events.
Like, the affordability and popularity of the middle class in yesteryear. Sure, this was partially due to latent new deal economic reforms, that were slowly stripped back in the years after, that’s true. But it was also due to a larger managerial class needing to exist, for capitalists, due to a lack of automation. We also can’t really minimize the amount and scale of exploitation that was still going on back then, even to a larger extent than today. Banana republics existed back then, just as they still are kicking around today.
Partially, right, these new deal regulations have been stripped back, that’s true. Partially the middle class has suffered from automation, which has extricated them from their labor, alienating them further, and shrinking their labor pool (programmers are the new managerial class, my man). Partially, it is the case that we are engaging in slightly smaller, or less direct, forms of interventionism.
So there are more reasons why the middle class has shrunk, and some of those, I would say, are kind of good things, some of those are progressions. It’s not to say that things always have to get worse, for them to be, like, equitable, right, which is what I think people are prone to believing in a cynical, idiotic, immoral kind of way. We just don’t walk in a straight line. Humanity walks the path of a total blackout drunk with two bum legs. It’s fits and starts, and there’s tons of piss.
I see this shit on tiktok all the time, where stupid retro flippers take, like, a fridge from the 60’s, and convince everyone it’s the bees knees and the cat’s pajamas so they can sell it to some rich freak for 4,000 bucks. I think, maybe, sure, average build quality is going to be higher than it is in the present, right. But we’re also experiencing survivors’ bias, so the higher quality stuff lasted longer, and we’re experiencing a decrease in value over time with those older products naturally, so you’re going to be able to get a higher quality thing, for maybe cheaper.
Especially if it’s mostly a “solved problem”, like a fridge. Which isn’t even to say that older fridges are solved problems, really. They’re going to have worse thermal coefficients from running all the time, having shitty thermometers, having shittier insulation. It is seen as higher quality because the evaluation of the product is done on almost a purely aesthetic value, rather than in any practical sense. Nobody really needs a fridge that’s capable of holding up to an atomic bomb. That’s a sense of quality that is totally external to the actual practicality of the product itself. It’s an aesthetic tactility.
We’re also going to be seeing shittier products as a result of a shrinking middle class, who’s no longer able to spend as much money on these sorts of luxuries. I dunno how many cool kickstarter gadget projects I’ve seen, that have to kind of, warp themselves in order to be bought up by techbro sensibilities, or else die. To the point where the original project intention often ends up suffering or being in some way misaligned with reality, and the project as a whole becomes shitty. But that’s also maybe just a point you could make about capitalism and society kind of, as a whole.
I dunno. I struggle with it, because I like old cars, they’re very cool. If you’re looking at it right, you can get 50-60 mpg, you can get something that has all your little simple tactile buttons, is easy to work on, and you can get that all for about 10,000+ dollars cheaper than your newer hybrid piece of shit. Which isn’t really something you can buy for cheaper used, since the batteries tend to start crapping out on you after the second owner, you gotta get more lucky to get those for cheap. But then we’re also in a weird transitional period for the used market so ehhhhh. At the same time, a super old car is gonna have worse safety standards, potentially worse reliability and drivability as a daily car. It’s going to have no features. Is it worse, or better? I dunno, it’s just kinda different. Really, I just want a higher quality honda civic vx. Maybe a little smaller, though.
I dunno, in summary. I think uhhh. Every present reality kinda sucks, probably. I will say also, as an addendum, that I think the past exists within the rose-colored stranglehold of the present. These simplified versions of the past that exist only in the mind, that exist apart from the present, with no chain of causality, that is a construct. It is unnatural, and it serves a purpose.
Well… there are actually a lot of things we could’ve taken from the old days. Atmosphere without excessive co2 for instance
Also a planet without excessive billionaires. Somehow the modern tech moguls managed to make the robber barons sound tame in comparison
A planet with even one billionaire is excessive I dare say.
The only thing we need to bring back to get them what they miss, is tax rates for corporations and the wealthiest.
It’s just they’ve been manipulated into thinking that was the one bad part and all the shitty social issues were what made their lives better.
Hell, even the Democratic party if today doesn’t want those tax rates, because some of that now goes to donations to them.
Both parties fight over social issues, and refuse to do anything about taxes.
So the people donating to both parties, never even have a chance to lose.
They bought the system, and it’s irrational to pretend they haven’t. Nothing will ever be fixed in America till we get money out of politics and tax the wealthy. It’s like trying to save the environment by recycling and paper straws.
Sure “every little bit helps” but if we ignore all the big stuff and only do the little bits, we ain’t gonna change enough
Atmosphere without excessive co2 for instance
Not with 8 billion people in the world…
Back then you could buy expensive products that were made to last. Today we can mostly choose between cheap products that don’t last and expensive product that don’t last either
Island economics, as long as the U.S. was mainly a closed system or a net exporter, we could do that because of a strong dollar.
Now that the entire world is a market, our actual dollar, or more accurately, the value per work hour, is staggeringly low compared to our grandfathers.
We literally cannot afford to buy lifelong products anymore despite manufacturing getting cheaper because our buying power dropped faster.
Oh sure, blame it on the consumers and not the rich assholes who cut corners on their products year after year after year in search of higher profit margins…
I don’t think they’re blaming it on consumers. And they aren’t wrong either. The power of the dollar is far less than it was even in the Great Depression. Thanks late stage capitalism!
The reason why wealth inequality has skyrocketed has less than nothing to do with the buying power of a single dollar. It’s completely missing the cause.
I don’t think anyone is actually talking about the cause. Doesn’t make their point any less valid.
It kinda’ does make it less valid when using it first is an implication away from the root cause.
We should not glorify red herring thought patterns.
There are plenty of high end products which last. Be honest, you just don’t have money to buy them. But you couldn’t buy them back then either, so you just didn’t have products at all.
But which? For example, I try to buy sneakers from brands that treat and pay their employees fairly, but am struggling to make them last more than a couple years. I’m comfortable paying 100 to 150 euro per pair. Is this too cheap to buy it for lasting??
Shoes are different I recall my athletic coach in school told me to replace sneakers every 6 months due to the wear down of the interior foam.
He was right. Bo matter the brand the insides wear out. So I got arch support inserts for my footwear and I use them until the tread wears out now.
I just wish footwear was easier to repair
If you want sneakers, you’re pretty much out of luck. You can pay top dollar for a handmade shoe that will last, but it won’t have sneaker aesthetics.
I’m with you though, I bought name brand sneakers, loafers etc. for $150 only to have them fall apart after one summer. I’m talking a span of time that can be expressed in weeks. Given the material cost and knowing how and where they are produced, that’s corporate greed, nothing else.
I don’t buy sneakers any more.
I know I’m kinda odd here because I’ve been accustomed to work boots as daily shoes. Partly because I live in a place where everywhere is muddy wet and covered in manure. Even then i don’t understand how people find sneakers comfortable. They are ridiculously tight you feel like you’re walking on carpet all the time and you have to make sure your only stepping on the dryest cleanest perfect ground you can find. The lack of durability just makes me question even further why bother.
I buy sneakers still but I focus on well reviewed runners. They’re light, breathable and usually have treads to last.
With a foot insert they last me a few years.
I can see how that could work. I had a few decent pairs from Japanese brands that lasted a while. But, as you said, those were running shoes with a certain, very pronounced “sporty” look that didn’t translate well to being worn as part of a casual bar or club outfit, which was definitely a consideration for me back then.
You can’t repair your quality sneakers because they’re a wear and tear part instead of your feet. Repairing your feet and legs is more expensive than buying new shoes.
That piece of advice doesn’t really apply to things like workboots. There are plenty of solid workboot brands that sell ~$300 boots that’ll last 3-5 years easily if properly taken care of. Some jobs are the exception, of course.
Agreed on boots. But I specifically mentioned sneakers.
Work boots and hiking boots can last a decade. You can retread them at a cobbler even.
Okay, show me a list of high end products that last with our society of corporate planned obsolescence.
My friend just picked up a 50+ year old joiner and drill press that still works like a boss. Meanwhile, my Delta drill press that I’ve had for less than a decade has already started acting up.
I’ll grant you that higher priced items will last longer than the harbor freight stuff, the Sam Vimes ‘Boots’ Theory of Socio-Economic Unfairness still apply in this day and age, but it’s not anywhere near the build quality and maintainability that things used to be, at least that’s what I’ve noticed.
You might also be experiencing survivorship bias.
How many other old drill presses were tossed/didn’t make it?
Just like people machines have variance in their materials and assembly. It’s entirely possible that many other, in your case, drill presses, broke early on in their life but a few have lasted.
We do have some ridiculously disposable products these days but I do think you can still get things that last.
My American Giant clothes for instance, I’ve definitely had some fraying on a few pieces but the majority of the clothes I’ve got from them still look like new and leave very very little dryer lint compared to my older department store shirts.
GoRuck backpacks are built like a tank though I’m upset they moved most manufacturing to Vietnam… Can we not repeat the mistake of empowering/trading with regimes?
I have a Cannondale bike that’s still in great shape after nearly a decade of fairly regular use.
My wired Sennheiser headphones (DT 660S) have significantly outlasted just about all of my friends headphones (by like 2-3 headphones). I just recently had to replace the cable on them but once I did that (and bought an extra spare cable) they’re like new.
I’ve got plenty of TVs (Samsung & Sony), monitors (Samsung, Asus, and Dell), and computers (mostly hand built using various parts … mostly from ASUS, MSI, and Corsair) around that are still running just fine almost a decade later and I know of some early LED panel TVs that are still running just fine.
I also know of some recent LED TVs and appliances made by “LG” that have started to break horrendously.
I’ve found Logitech, Corsair mice and Ducky, System76, Corsair keyboards to significantly out last Razor mice and Razor, WASD keyboards.
My DeWalt tools are running like a champ still and significantly smaller and lighter than what my father’s (also still running DeWalt tools) were/are.
I absolutely adore my Brother printer vs all the HP printers I had before.
Meanwhile my Akron, Ohio house that was built in the 60s by professionals has several design issues that have resulted in floors sagging after all these years and will likely need all the pipes replaced in the next 20-30 years because of inferior materials like cast iron plumbing.
There are still brands that do actually make products that last. The “poor tax” is definitely real though, a lot of these products do cost a lot more upfront but I’ve bought significantly less stuff and paid less over time because I have paid that upfront price.
Sometimes you pay a lot of money and it still goes bad … but in general, I’ve gotten what I’ve paid for.
Again, the Sam Vimes ‘Boots’ Theory of Socio-Economic Unfairness still holds but planned obsolescence where shit, even good shit, falls apart more readily than before.
Sure there could be survivor bias as you state but I still own a crap ton of stuff inherited from the 50/60/70’s that’s holding up much better than today’s cheap plastic junk and items that are literally designed to fall apart, including your dewalts, deltas, milwalkees, mikatas. Not saying that planned obsolescence wasn’t a thing back then, it certainly was but it’s a fuck ton more prevalent now than it was back then and repairing, something that today’s companies are actively fighting consumers against makes it even worse in today’s throwaway culture.
That and I still think that the OP is a bit of pretentious dick.
Another thing to note is ease of repair. My folks have been using my dad’s 65 CJ5 jeep and a 04 John Deere tractor. Can’t remember the exactly the model off the top of my head but they are both used as work wood haulers. The jeep has broken down a few times but it doesn’t take longer than a afternoon to make repairs but the tractor has only broken down less because we don’t use it as often because it always takes a week to fix the things that go wrong. We also have a 15 F150 to haul wood and stuff but because it’s new and we got it in really nice condition so we try to baby it as much as we can when loading up fire wood into the bed. My 56 bel air is surprisingly straight up reliable I’ve never had to work on it as often as our modern cars but yet again we use it less and baby it when we can.
Miele appliances still last ages and you still don’t have money to buy them. My Wenger backpack lasted 10 years of heavy use. All of my high end EU made stuff just lasts. Stop buying shit.
I mean fuck all these poor people who can’t afford a Wenger backpack and Miele appliances amirite?
But if I repeatedly set it on fire, freeze it, stab it with knifes, & hang 800ib on it, will it last?
Haha poor can’t afford 1000$+ nearly indestructible backpack. Haha poor.
Notable mention…I bought an Oster blender 20 years ago that’s still going strong.
I was just the other day reading this article about how fast fashion has ruined vintage shopping because there’s this decades-long gap now between when clothes were made to last and our more recent obsession with fast fashion. People used to discard clothes because they were out of style and not because they just looked like crap after 16 months.
When you were young?
When a house wasn’t impossibly expensive and you have time and money to raise children?
