Over half of women who have had abortions have had a previous child.
Are these not valid questions? Serious question, don’t mean to offend. I got asked the same types of questions before my doctor agreed to do my vasectomy.
My understanding is that doctors often don’t just question but often refuse if they think the person should not do it. To be clear, that refusal is generally based on personal opinion, not for medical reasons.
This is exactly the issue. A friend of mine knew for a fact she never wanted to have children, but at the time was in her early twenties. Finding a surgeon who would do it was damn near impossible. Half of them refused without speaking with her husband (!) the other half just refused period saying she was young and didn’t know what she wants and would change her mind later.
At NO point was ‘my body my choice’ part of the discussion.
There was a similarly good thread on Reddit a couple weeks back about a woman who just gave birth and was having a lot of pain and knew something was wrong, and the doctor just dismissed her and said she’s being hormonal. It wasn’t until her husband threatened to sue the hospital that they finally got her a different doctor, who rushed her into the ER and as I recall said if she waited another day she’d have died.
The point is, and the problem is, that medical establishment has an awful habit of denying women agency over their own bodies. Always wrapped in valid reasons, but the result is still the same.
My wife’s gynecologist has asked her if she wanted to get her tubes tied during all three of our pregnancies. It didn’t offend us, we have the kids we want now and she said yes this last time.
I appreciated him asking. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s on that list.
Isn’t it far safer for a man to get a vasectomy?
Generally yes vasectomy is safer. But if they’re planning to give birth via c-section for whatever reason for example, then in practical terms there’s basically no additional risk. Plus neither method is totally effective. So if you can both get fixed you have much better chances of not getting pregnant accidentally.
Yeah it definitely is. I’m older than her though and we discussed it. I could end up kicking the bucket or our relationship might fail and she wants to plan ahead for the unknown.
We’ve got a few more weeks to talk about it, but ultimately I might end up getting a vasectomy too just to have it over with. I have plenty of kids.
I have two adopted and 5 biological, so I’m good at this point.
Hell, I was good 3 kids ago really. Haha
I wouldn’t trade any of them for anything in this world though.
None of those are required to be known for any other surgery. “Are you sure you want your shoulder fixed? What if in a few years you find a nice someone and want it broken again? Think of the smiles of your children when you rub this scar line!”
Your heart is in the right place, but that’s not exactly a reasonable comparison. Few other surgeries, even elective ones, permanently remove your ability to do something as major as procreation.
People should have the option to have their tubes tied without judgement, but it is not as simple a decision as repairing a damaged part of the body.
Age definitely seems really valid. Like I can imagine that certain things about the operation itself can change with age.
As a man, I think it’s the sort of experience that men struggle to understand because of patriarchal dynamics.
What I mean is: if a doctor were to:
- ask me if I have considered other forms of birth control
- and then explain all the different birth control methods to make sure I actually understand,
- ask if I’ve talked about the decision with my wife,
- and then explain that a general impression of her opinion isn’t the same thing as sitting down together and reviewing all the data,
- ask if understand how the surgery will affect my body
- and then explain the hormonal changes my body would go through
- etc
before agreeing to schedule a vasectomy.
Interpretting these questions through the lens of my lived experience:
These are thorough but pragmatic questions. The doctor is trying to make sure I understand all the options. The doctor is a peer with special expertise and wants to make sure that I understand all the risks.
But women too often grow up in an environment which tells them:
- Women should trust the men in their lives too make the best decisions for them.
- That having children is the most important thing they can do in the world.
- A woman’s value is proportional to her utility as a wife and mother.
- Women that have sex for fun are disgusting sluts.
So when they get asked a barrage of questions identical to the ones I’dve been asked, they experience them very differently. Women are not irrational to hear the exact same questions very differently if they are interpreting them through the lens of their experiences. Maybe they experience those questions as:
- “Why don’t you just stop having so much sec you slut?”
- “Don’t you know how to have sex with out getting pregnant you dumb bitch?”
- “Do you have your husband’s permission?”
- “Does your husband know you’re a slut?”
- “Do you understand that you will be destroying your value to society if you don’t have kids?”
- “Do you understand that you will become any even crazier bitch after this?”
And too often, the doctor really does mean that.
Population control for mother earth and control of humanity. That’s the plan.
Yeah I don’t think that’s the plan for most people. Some people just don’t want to take on the resposibility of kids and tubal litigation and vasectomies are good ways to prevent kids.
Hey, I have no issues with that. After all, it’s mainly liberals/progressives/leftist that are anti-children.
Yeah, not being forced to have a baby definitely makes me feel controlled.
Is there a penisologist for this too?
Try harder for an erection permit.
Urologists do vasectomies and they don’t generally harass guys about their reproductive choices because sexism (vasectomies being easier to reverse is probably a factor too).
Depends on your country. In France not all urologists will help you
Holup. Is that a penis specific doctor or is there no penis specific doctor while everyone is going around saying vagina science is way behind penis science because societal level discrimination?
Also, literally everyone I meet who hears about it gives me shit for my choice to never have kids, and I’m a guy. Just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean guys don’t also take shit from the baby crazy people. I’m an antinatalist.
Women also have urinary tracts so no, Urologists treat both sexes. Believe it or not gynecology was very sexist in the era where only men could be doctors. The presence of a specialty does not preclude it from bias and harm.
Also saying penis specific and vagina specific is really missing the mark, it’s generally the internal stuff that is more of an issue (prostates for men, womb, ovaries and fallopian tubes for women).
Men are generally more permitted by traditional western society to pursue things outside of raising a family than women are, and as with most things personal experience can and will vary.
Gynecology probably used to be really bullshit and run by dudes who just wanted to deal with vagina for a living.
Yes on the bullshit, less on the creepy sexual part.
More a mix of people who viewed it as ensuring families are healthy and populous, and looking out for a husbands wife’s reproductive tract and keeping his wife’s vagina “good”, and making money with a speciality.
Even in the era when “manual stimulation” as a treatment for hysteria was a thing, there are consistent records of doctors loathing the procedure. Part of what inspired the creation of the vibrator.
they don’t generally harass guys
Actually most of them do.
I can’t speak for that myself but my brother said he had a very easy time with his.
I got my vasectomy done through Planned Parenthood. I had to go in for a screening first where they asked questions like, “Are you sure you want to do this?” and I said yeah and they said, “Really sure?” and I said yeah, so they said “OK cool, come back in two weeks and we’ll snip snip.”
Very easy process, highly recommend.
When I broached the subject with my doctor he asked how many kids I have. I said 0. He seemed to have more of a personal reaction as if a friend had said that and he started to push back ever so slightly saying something like “but kids are great”. I just responded matter of factly that that shouldn’t matter. He instantly snapped out of it and back to doctor mode, apologized, and set up the referral. I was snipped inside a month with not another whisper of hesitancy from anyone.
Had mine done through the NHS. Basically two questions, “do you have children already” and “how long since your last child was born?”.
If you haven’t had kids yet, you just need to explain why you want a vasectomy, usually with a specialist. If your last child was born less than two months ago, they want you to wait (apparently a lot of men’s first reaction to the realities of having a baby is to try to ensure it won’t happen again).
Why should I have to explain my choices regarding my body? Take my money and do your job or don’t and I’ll go to someone else who will.
That doctor would be paid by the NHS, not by you.
What’s NHS? I don’t have insurance.
NHS = National Health Service
It’s what we have in the UK, and essentially means that all your health care is free.
Vasectomy = free. Having a baby in hospital = free. CAT scan = free. Insulin = free.
Admittedly, it’s paid for in taxes, but at a small fraction of the cost of the American way of doing things.
Because sometimes its about protecting yourself from yourself.
Making sure someone wants a vasectomy because they have all the children they want is a different thing from wanting a vasectomy as a jump scare reaction to just having had a baby and oh shit oh shit, let me do something I’ll regret later.
Fully agree that doctors take precautions with procedures that are hard to reverse or potentially irreversible.
Never protect me from me.
Alright, so next time when you drunkenly stumble into a heavy traffic road, I’ll let you die
If infind you on the ground having a heart attack, I’ll just leave you to die
When you are about to eat poisonous food, I won’t warn you, go right ahead.
You “i never make mistakes!!” Guys are tiring
Because medical ethics requires some degree of confidence that you’re not making a permanent decision that you’ll regret.
Unnecessary hurdles like mandatory waiting periods, refusing to do it without someone else’s consent, or refusal to do it at all if you’re childless are wrong, but making sure someone understands the procedure and it’s consequences and that what they’re asking for is actually solving the complaint they want to solve is just being responsible.
Doctors aren’t mechanics.
That’s entirely my decision. Bodily autonomy is most important.
Sure, but you still need to convince someone else you are informed and educated on the risks and outcomes.
You get a handful of really bad stories, but most doctors just want to make sure they don’t have a patient knocking on their door complaining that this vasectomy thing isn’t what they wanted.
It is entirely your decision. It’s also their decision if they can ethically perform the procedure.
Some people read that a vasectomy can be reversed and understand that they are 100% reversible 100% of the time. If someone says they want a vasectomy so they can skip other forms of birth control until they’re ready to have kids, the doctor needs to correct their misunderstanding before they can ethically perform the procedure.
“Informed consent” requires making sure the individual is “informed”, “able to consent”, and “consenting”.
Because like it or not, it’s not the doctors job to do whatever you want no questions asked. It’s to evaluate need, desire, and risks and advise and act accordingly.
The doctor who would perform an unnecessary procedure without doing that is just as bad as the one who refuses. Maybe worse.
It doesn’t need to be necessary. It’s not their call. It’s no different from getting an abortion.
Sterilization is quite a bit different from abortion.
An abortion is a choice not to have a child. Sterilization is a choice to permanently alter your body such that you can never have children.
A doctor talking to a patient to ensure they understand a procedure and it’s consequences and that those consequences are what they want when those consequences are permanent is just responsible.
It’s entirely the patients decision, but that doesn’t mean the doctor shouldn’t confirm their intent.
Can they foretell Uranus’s movements?
I’d refer you to an astronomer for that
Or an astrologer, if you want the dollar-store version.
Yes, it’s called “keep it in your pants if you want your partner to get pregnant and she doesn’t want to because abortion is illegal in a lot of states now.”
tl;dr - yes and no.
Keep it in my pants is my strategy anyhow because I’m an antinatalist and do not gamble with my ethics. There isn’t a scenario where I’m trying to impregnate someone who doesn’t want it, so don’t come at me with a chip on your shoulder like that.
I had a friend who was born despite his father’s vasectomy. I don’t care what the odds are. I don’t play with odds.
Sounds like boning dudes is right up your (or their) alley.
That would be convenient. 🤣😭
I’m guessing the odds are so slim that vasectomy plus condom is so close to impossible statistically speaking that you would be safe. I’m not trying to criticize your personal choice, which is perfectly valid.
I’d rather jerk it than bother with a condom and my cosmic tier anxiety about the universe I live in trying to peg me with a ‘gotcha’ and beating me up over failing to handle my own desire. I’ll handle it.
I had kids when I got together with my now-husband and he did too, and I had a history of literally falling pregnant each of the times I didn’t use birth control, so he was vasectomized AND I had IUD put in, together this was as good as science can do now and it worked perfectly. Vasectomy can regrow but IUD is very reliable.
I guess if sex isn’t important to you then enjoy, or if you can enjoy sex with men that would also be 100% no chance of pregnancy. But for me, it’s such a wonderful part of life, letting fear rule it seems bad.
I can’t say I’m not horny as fuck. I just deal with it. It’d be pretty convenient to be gay. 🤣
Well eventually you will get old enough that the women in your age group will be through menopause, maybe then you can get back in there.
Based ❤️
Something makes me uneasy about this being a Google sheet, you need to use credentials to view it and someone has a log of who has accessed it…you can probably even see who’s viewing it in realtime
Use an anonymous account! Or someone should host this on a website or something with higher privacy
You can open it in private/incognito tab, it doesn’t require credentials
Just entered it, with my Google credentials, even though I’m neither a woman nor an American. If they are going to track people who read it, let’s add as much garbage data as we can (to the tracking, not to the sheet)
The other side is concerning as well. This list could also be used by individuals looking to do some targeted harassment. Or worse.
OP is based
Considering the aims of Project 2025, this may end up being illegal within the next four years.
Best to pass this info on to any pre-menopausal women that you know of out there. Having tubes tied still allows eggs to be harvested, it just prevents the sperm from reaching said egg outside of a test tube.
The childfree subreddit also maintains a similar list, for anyone who may need it.
The fact that this has to be a Google doc maintained by the general public, instead of just having doctors do their damn job, is infuriating.
I saved this info to a file on my computer in case the Google Sheet doc goes away. Don’t be passive. Take some action, no matter how small.
Good plan. I will do the same. Although you might go back and do it periodically, because the list started a few days ago with only 150 names on it.
Noted and saved. Thanks for the suggestion.
I don’t really need the sheet, but this comment compelled me to download it anyway
Nothing stresses me out more than FOMO
If you’re reading this like 5 years from now and the doc is gone, feel free to reply or DM me or the guy I’m replying to. I will probably still have it, unless I get hit by a bus or something
Notice the
htmlviewat the end. You can archive it.On that note, let me add something else in a similar fashion:
Worth noting, Patriot Front had a huge leak of data in 2022.
Patriot Front Fascist Leak Exposes Nationwide Racist Campaigns
You can download it at the following torrent address:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2c87816e4c81990fb25bbca43dd8d578eaa55886&dn=patriotfront&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2920&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969
I happen to be seeding this on a permanent basis. I have a gigabit uplink. Please leach and share. Expose these fucks.
oh fuck yeah
Ooh.
I’m always connected with gigabit, looks like I’ve got a torrent to permanently seed!
If you do so then I thank you.
Already grabbing it. Not exactly a fast torrent, but once I’ve got it, it will stay up.
Strange. This caused me to check my torrent client and there’s no uplink traffic on it. I confirmed that it’s still seeding. I wonder why you’re not pulling from mine. But whatever, it’s getting out there to more people who care so it’s a win.
Oh I’ve been wondering what to use my 10Gbps connection for. Thanks for the info.
100 Gbit? Is there even such a thing as a 100 Gbit link? I want to know more!
Nothing stresses me out more than FOMO
Hey, I have this idea for a new cryptocurrency. It’s going to be huge I swear
Yeah thank god I was too stupid to set up a wallet address at the peak of the hype. I’d probably be long dead or in prison by now.
Any document for doctors who will actually listen and not make incredibly fucking idiotic observations about completely irrelevant medical topics? Asking for at least half the population of women in the U.S. who have gone in with a legit problem and been verbally pushed aside and not listened to.
“When was your last period?”
“I came in to be prescribed anti-depressants. I have been officially diagnosed.”
“Yes yes, but how is your uterus?”
“I am going to need anti-psychotics if you keep this up.”
I was thirteen years old when I went to the doctor by myself because a cut on my eyelid wasn’t healing. I was asked about my birth control, sexual activity, and whether I thought I could be pregnant (after saying I’ve never had sex) then pushed out of the examination room after NOT having my eye examined at all.
As an adult, I realize now how terrible that was and I would have done something about it if it had happened to me today. But at the time I was so embarrassed and hurt, I just pushed all thought of it away until years later.
What the hell? That’s so wack and useless. Stating the obvious, I know. Just saying I feel for your and others who may have had to deal with that kind of behavior.
Considering you are talking about Memerica, you also was charged for it
Thank you for this!
Not all heroes wear capes. Thanks from the dystopian state of Texas, OP <3
We moved hospitals for the birth of our twins to find one that was willing to tie her tubes when they took the twins out. She ended up having to have a hysterectomy for other reasons later but them being willing to tie her tubes during the c-section was a big part of our decision on doctors to see.
My mom had a hell of a time getting her tubes tied after my brother was born. She had to argue with the doctor for a while to eventually get it done. Gave her the old “What if you change your mind later?” line in like 5 different variations. The one that really angered me though when she told me the story was “What if something happens to one of your children?” Like you were just replacing a busted TV or something.
The one that really angered me though when she told me the story was “What if something happens to one of your children?” Like you were just replacing a busted TV or something.
That’s so awful. What a bizarre attitude. It’s like something out of the Middle Ages- you can always have another, unless you die in childbirth.
It is not an unreasonable question, I was asked the same when I got my vasectomy. The implication was “you are young enough to have another should the worst happen”, not that kids are replaceable parts.
Cool. That implication doesn’t matter if you’re in an abusive relationship where your husband expects you to keep pumping out children.
That doesn’t really matter though. Doctors aren’t supposed to judge like that. You have to deal with that because you’re, emphasis on you, are making the decision right now to forfeit that ability in the future.
I’m so happy that I already see a doctor on that list. When I told her that I won’t function if I get taken off my birth control because of my endometriosis and how heavy my periods are, I was told that a hysterectomy isn’t something she’d consider YET and heavily implied she’d actually consider it if birth control becomes illegal. Love her.
i hope you will forgive me for asking something so personal (and i understand if you choose to ignore it), but - if you want a hysterectomy now and have been advised of the impacts, why is she unwilling at present?
Because she doesn’t think it is medically necessary due to the fact my birth control is keeping everything handled. I’m fine with not getting one now, but will want one if birth control becomes illegal.
