Depending on how the next four years go I’m on the fence between Bush Jr. and Trump but I’d like to hear from you

Edit:

Top 10 suggestions so far (unordered):

  • Andrew Jackson
  • Andrew Johnson
  • George W. Bush Jr
  • Ronald Reagan
  • Richard Nixon
  • James K. Polk
  • Woodrow Wilson
  • James Buchanan
  • Franklin Pierce
  • Donald J. Trump
  • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    0·
    5 months ago

    Woodrow Wilson was so racist that he was quoted in an epigraph for “The Birth of a Nation.” You know, the 1915 movie about how awesome the KKK was, which became the first true “blockbuster” film and which led to a huge resurgence in KKK activity. Not only that, but Woodrow Wilson also personally invited the filmmakers to screen the movie in the White House - the first movie ever screened in the White House, by the way. Honorable mention!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation#/media/File:Wilson-quote-in-birth-of-a-nation.jpg

      • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
        0·
        5 months ago

        what? He gave the Slavic nations self-determination, there are roads named after him in e.g. Czechia, Slovakia; and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?

        • TheDrink [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          0·
          5 months ago

          wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy

          The Soviets wanted deescalation after WW2, and supported self determination for liberated countries including Korea, Vietnam, Greece and Italy. Whatever you think of communism, the American policy of “containment” is directly and indisputably responsible for the suppression of democracy in dozens of countries and wars which killed tens of millions of people all because some of those people would have elected communist and socialist leaders we didn’t like.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
          0·
          5 months ago

          He gave the Slavic nations self-determination

          Absurd claim. Slavic nations risen due to collapse of the three european empires in WWI.

  • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
    0·
    5 months ago

    I don’t care about others opinions on this one bit, for my money. When looking at how much long term damage they have done to the country, our global relations and to the world in general; it’s Donald and it’s not even a close contest.

  • saigot@lemmy.ca
    0·
    5 months ago

    Does worst mean:

    • least able to achieve their stated agenda, ie worst at their job. (Trump)
    • worst vision for America, ie most evil (Reagan)
    • worst overall impact to America, ie one you’d kill with a time machine (Bush Jr, but Trump might catch up in term 2)
    • Worst for the word, ie the one I’d kill with a time machine (Washington)

    Although I’m not American and don’t know your history that well.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      0·
      5 months ago

      Idk I think Jackson beats Reagan there. He was the trail of tears guy. He ran on genocide against the indigenous peoples of the continent and delivered

    • Emmy "Breadsong" Weimar@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      You probably know it way better than the average American. I say this not only as an American, but as one who has been outside North America. I find that our own perspective on us is pretty skewed, and it takes a lot of work to set it straight. More than most of us are willing to do.

  • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
    0·
    5 months ago

    Agree with most of the comments about jackson being the worst, but I’m surprised no one’s mentioned Eisenhower and Hoover, who would easily go in the top ten.

    • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
      0·
      5 months ago

      I also wanted to throw Truman in the ring for signing off nuclear strikes on mainly civilian targets (i.e. cities) and for the American war crimes in Korea (but I mainly blame MacArthur for that) but he also fired MacArthur and roasted him and the other generals whilst doing so. So maybe somewhere in the top 15 to 25. If MacArthur’s run for president had succeeded tho we’d have another strong candidate.

    • iii@mander.xyzEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      I’m having a hard time deciding between grape and kiwi what about you?

        • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
          0·
          5 months ago

          Everyone loves strawberries

          (But ngl I just really wanted to know what people would say. I find some answers very reasonable, others quite debatable. But I’d also be interested in what Lemmy thinks is the best president the US has ever had)

          • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
            0·
            5 months ago

            Sorry about that, I wasn’t trying to say the question wasn’t asked in good faith, it was meant light hearted what with the general tension with the recent election.

            Which, I think that also points to the likely pick for me, though I’d definitely say that Johnson is a damn good bed example of a president. I mean, dude came in after a civil war and set back part of what was accomplished by playing wimp with the ex confederate states. He single handedly set up another century of oppression and strife.

            Best though? That’s actually harder. To be the best you have to have done something that stands out, which means there has to have been something big during your presidency to give you that opportunity. It means that some of the good presidents might not have shown their greatness as presidents because they didn’t have anything to work on, or maybe didn’t have a Congress willing to work with them.

            That being said, Franklin Roosevelt has to be an option for best. The man made plenty of bad choices, but he was the leader that the country needed at the time, and did his best at every step (even when it turned out less than stellar), and that is pretty much all anyone can do.

            Lincoln is another pick for the same reason. Gets elected during the most turmoil ridden era, and manages to get the country back together during a war that could well have led to a permanent split.

            • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
              0·
              5 months ago

              I’d be lying if I wasn’t aware I was poking the beehive so no need for you to be sorry (or at least I should say that I am sorry too). Plus I could have made it sound less like I was turning the US into some sort of punching bag for bad emotions but to be honest I have to admit I wasn’t all too sober when I posted and whilst my main intention was curiosity I failed to phrase my question that way and I failed to filter my personal emotions so the question was negative. I’m yet another example why one shouldn’t be allowed to use social media drunk and I am sorry for that. :')

              I agree with your picks for good presidents and your reasoning. Thank you for the added details :)

            • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              5 months ago
              1. Lincoln
              2. FDR
              3. Washington
              4. Teddy Roosevelt
              5. Jefferson
              6. Eisenhower
              7. Truman
              8. JFK
              9. LBJ
              10. Obama

              JFK would have been top 5 if he hadn’t been gunned down 2 years into his presidency 😭

              @zyratoxx@lemm.ee

              I prefer talking about the best, talking about the worst just makes me depressed.

              • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
                0·
                5 months ago

                I prefer talking about the best, talking about the worst just makes me depressed.

                Oh I totally get where you’re coming from. I usually use my lemm.ee account for when I’m stable enough for discussion (because lemm.ee is still federated with both hexbear and 'grad and .world and the more pro western servers which helps me train my critical thinking and arguing) but sometimes I just don’t want any more negativity or politicised battlegrounds and then I just use my .world account to spread the good vibes and enjoy the memes.

                Regarding JFK I heard he was a bit of a “you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain” kinda case but I also heard that he would have been a good president so I’m kinda split. It’s similar with William Henry Harrison, who was president for 31 days before he died. As a slave holder he would have probably been a horrible president but he never really made any calls so he’s not among the worst candidates.

                • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
                  0·
                  5 months ago

                  I definitely have to admit some pro JFK bias as an Irish American 😅

                  But I obviously also have rationales for why I think he was a great president. Foremost among them is that I feel that he was a truly independent political force that was beholden neither to his party nor to external interests. His popularity, wealth, and personal relationship with the American people gave him the potential to do radical things against the wishes of the entrenched oligarchy, which is possibly why he was assassinated. He demonstrated a willingness and a capacity to upend the established order.

                  William Henry Harrison is often considered among the worst for the simple reason that he did die. Put on a coat mah boi, we didn’t elect your ass to get a cold and die instantly.

                  because lemm.ee is still federated with both hexbear and 'grad and .world and the more pro western servers which helps me train my critical thinking and arguing

                  I wish hexbear was more into debating and less into memeing. I find that they tend to run away from serious debate and prefer to troll. Honestly lemmygrad has seemed less annoying to me than hexbear lately because they seem more likely to take things seriously and make legitimate arguments. I don’t see too much of them because I’m usually on my main account and sjw blocks them.

                  I use my account at lemmy.myserv.one in a similar way to your lemm.ee account, but since I’m an admin here I end up spending way more time on this account.

    • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
      0·
      5 months ago

      Touché. His first term wasn’t that horrible (although it wasn’t good either). I’m still mad they organised a meeting with Kim just to tell him to go fuck himself. That character development could become spicy. On the other hand would we even have had a meeting with Clinton in power?

      But hey, he still has four years and a lot of plans to claim a podium place.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
        0·
        5 months ago

        That meeting with Kim was probably to woo him like US previously did to Iran to make them abandon nuclear armaments, but thankfully DPRK govt can read and do know what happens to countries who believe empty US lies. So since that didn’t work, US in a second abandoned their friendly mask and went back to previous policies.

  • kersploosh@sh.itjust.works
    0·
    5 months ago

    While W. sucked in many ways, there is no way is he the worst. Off the top of my head I can easily think of four: Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan (both guilty of pro-slavery fuckery before the Civil War), Andrew Johnson (fought to let the Confederates off the hook after the war and opposed the 14th amendment), and Donald Trump (first president to be impeached twice, first to be convicted of a felony, and may be remembered by future historians as the spark that ignites the next Civil War).

    • einkorn@feddit.org
      0·
      5 months ago

      Btw. question from Germany regarding Trumps Felony: I read that people convicted of a felony may not vote yet I also read that Trump cast his in Florida. Hoe does it actually work?

    • guy@piefed.socialEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      Question from another European about that, he’s convicted but never got a sentence? Or did he and why in that case isn’t he serving?

      • FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee
        0·
        5 months ago

        Sentencing was delayed until after Nov. 5th, and now it’s been permanently delayed. I’m sure the conviction will be overturned at some point while he’s in office

        • guy@piefed.socialEnglish
          0·
          5 months ago

          But have can you delay a sentence?
          I mean it sounds so foreign to be told in court that “Yeah you’re deemed guilty… but we’re telling you your punishment later. Maybe.” instead of just BAM guilty, straight to jail it will be!

          • FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee
            0·
            5 months ago

            Sentencing isn’t always done at the same time a verdict is given. Often a judge will take time to research the punishments available in the law. Sometimes they’ll take advice on a person’s character, and consider the level of remorse the convict has for the crimes.

            There was a small public outcry last year when a celebrity was convicted of sex crimes, and other celebrities known for their work against sex trafficking wrote to the judge to ask for leniency. It made the news because famous people were involved, but it’s a common occurrence.

            He also wanted to wait to see what the Supreme Court would rule in the presidential immunity case, and I honestly can’t blame the man for delaying indefinitely following the results of that. This judge and his family received a lot of death threats and harassment from Trump’s supporters, but he also had to consider that Trump is immune to whatever crimes he chooses to commit in office.

      • 50MYT@aussie.zone
        0·
        5 months ago

        Non burgers here: I believe the sentencing for the conviction was delayed till after the election. And since that they have announced it has been delayed indefinitely.

        • guy@piefed.socialEnglish
          0·
          5 months ago

          How is this even possible? Aren’t sentences supposed to come with the verdict?
          The punishment might come at a later date (it might in my country where you can be told that in 3 months you will serve jail time), but the sentence?

    • adarza@lemmy.caEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      donvict ain’t done yet, either. i think the damage and legacy he leaves behind, leaking out that giant diaper, will be the worst of the bunch.

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
    0·
    5 months ago

    It’s tempting to pick someone recent, but the real answer is probably Andrew Jackson. He successfully engineered a genocide, trampled the Constitution and human rights, and was actively hostile to limits on Presidential power.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
        0·
        5 months ago

        Pretty much all of them actively participated in various genocides and massacres, either directly like native genocide or Philippines or all the aerial massacres of XX and XXI century (even the one who was president for a month), or indirectly like even the “most peaceful president” Carter supported the massacres in Indonesia.

        • OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml
          0·
          5 months ago

          Just wondering if you had a few other overseen examples off the top of your head since you seem knowledgeable on this.

      • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        5 months ago

        Every president since the 70s has overseen genocide, even ignoring the one you’re likely alluding too.

      • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
        0·
        5 months ago

        Christ. most of them.

        George Washington got to be in charge of a country that enshrined chattel slavery in its constitution for 20 years. Thomas Jefferson provided military aid to France’s efforts to quash a slave revolt in Haiti. Andrew Jackson personally orchestrated a genocide against the Cherokee, Creek, and Choctaw (all of whom were aligned with american interests). Zachary Taylor put a bounty on bison, in an effort to starve the native Americans of the great plains. Abraham Lincoln allowed his western military expeditions to do basically whatever to the native Americans. Andrew Johnson started the process of letting confederate leadership be who directed reconstruction rather than being punished for it.

        And here we reach Ulysses S Grant. one of America’s favorite punching bag presidents because he got scammed rather frequently, but when you dig into why he was prone to getting scammed, it’s because he thought it was America’s duty to use its economic power to help the lowest people in society. it’s hard to be mad at a guy who was trying so hard to help people that sometimes he let someone con him into thinking they deserved help.

        i can keep going on how a ton of our historical presidents have sucked. i’m still personally willing to say the top 3 are Andrew Jackson, Ronald Reagan, and Donald trump

    • Jolly Platypus@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      We’ll see if 47 surpasses him. He’s set up to do so. It’s going to be wild to see what happens when Trump order troops to fire into crowds of American citizens.

      • OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml
        0·
        5 months ago

        We always seem to get this crazy hyperbole that Trump is going to be some competent fascist that’s going to perform some great coup that will end the US, but in reality it always seems the real damage he does is the evil bureaucracy that erodes rights and liberties while exacerbating things in foreign policy.

        Jan 6th was very flashy, but comparatively speaking, nothing really happened.

        • Ledivin@lemmy.world
          0·
          5 months ago

          I’m not afraid of Trump’s competence. I’m afraid of Trump’s cult of personality and the competent people that are now handling him. We didn’t elect Trump, we elected Project 2025.

          • OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml
            0·
            5 months ago

            Handling is a somewhat strong word here though. For better and worse, he’s very impulsive and egotistically sensitive. His last administration left a huge wake of people that haven’t been rehired and likely won’t be.

            Even if we assume his new lackeys care enough about the Heritage Foundation to attempt to implement their plan, I’d be amazed if they could corral his attention long enough to get him to sign anything in.