If anyone can find more pixels for me i would appreciate it.
Thanks y’all.
Where’s my fellow "yo’d’ll"s at
Your what now
Oh…you know 😏
I’ll throw in “folks” as another gender neutral option. I say “you folks” all the time, especially in professional contexts. I’m not from the South, but I have family there so y’all is a part of my vocabulary. I use it in more informal situations pretty commonly.
I’m not from the south and use “y’all” all the time. Find it very useful for filling in a gap that English has and slightly faster than saying “you all”. Its gender neutral in my opinion.
Never once thought of it as offensive.
Y’all is gender neutral, do I imagine it’s fine
We’re talking about Southern US pronunciation so much that I read your comment from “do I” onwards as if it was being spoken like a Southern Belle.
I have a VERY southern friend. He once said “y’all all”.
There are pride buttons that say Y’all means all.
Am I the only one who actually looked for more pixels for this guy?
Anywho, here you go my guy:
Edit: hmmm, Lemmy seems to be compressing it. Here’s a link.
People where I am from call everyone “you guys” - men, women, trans, doesn’t matter, everyone is just “you guys” even when it’s a woman addressing a group of women.
The literal meaning isn’t gender neutral, but in actual practice, it 100% is.
As for “y’all” or “you all”, I don’t see how it could possibly be interpreted as offensive to any gender.
The literal meaning isn’t gender neutral, but in actual practice, it 100% is.
Unless you can ask a straight man how many guys he’s slept with, it isn’t gender neutral, no matter how resistant to this fact you are.
I don’t see the issue with using the term “guys” in the plural when referring to a group regardless of sex. That would align with the definition of the word. I’m pretty sure that’s how they meant it.
Unless you can ask a straight man how many guys he’s slept with, it isn’t gender neutral, no matter how resistant to this fact you are.
E: the fact that neither of you give a shit about the people telling you the term isn’t gender neutral, doesn’t apply to us, and that we don’t feel comfortable with you using it to speak to or about us says it all. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do to convince yourself otherwise you are the ones choosing to be the problem instead of actually listening to others and showing some basic respect. It’s an easy fix, too - all you have to do is give a minimal fuck about others.
don’t feel comfortable with you using it to speak to or about us
This actually is relevant, but wasn’t part of your initial statement. If you don’t like people using the term to refer to you then people should absolutely make an effort to not use that term when referencing you.
Saying there’s some mental gymnastics on my part is a bit of stretch, it’s how the word is defined in the dictionary. All I needed was to read. There’s no disrespect here, if you don’t like it then using the term to refer to you would be disrespectful, but I haven’t done so.
That’s how people use it, whether you like it or not. I did not invent the language, but that’s how people use it.
Saying “guys” on its own is also not the same thing as “you guys” in regions that do this.
You can shoot the messenger all you like but it is what it is and I have no power over how people in a region use a language, I am merely informing you of that fact.
Dude is also situationally gender neutral. Saying “Hey dude” to a trans woman is misgendering her but exclaiming “Yo dude check this out!” or “Duuuude no way” is perfectly acceptable.
As for “y’all” or “you all”, I don’t see how it could possibly be interpreted as offensive to any gender.
I think “we don’t take kindly to y’all” to a trans person would likely be offensive. Beyond that though, you’re probably okay.
“yall” is obviously not the problematic part of that sentence
I might as well double down while I’m here, “we don’t take kindly” was too aggressive wording.
I meant something more neutral like “I think y’all are weird”.
That way, the y’all is the problematic part. That was my point.
Nope, “y’all” is still not the problematic part
Okay, I’ll bite. How is y’all not the problematic part when it’s specifically referring to trans people in that case?
That certainly seems problematic to me.
I mean … Thats just an all out threat with y’all acting as an exclusionary statement.
All in all agree with your point tho.
“You People” is the one to be avoided
“howdy fuckers” is the opposite as it sounds bad on paper but in practice it goes over well (except with middle aged moms)
“G’day cunts” goes over either extremely well or extremely poorly, with no in-between
Ah the classic way to say hello in Australian.
Yeah I don’t see that one going over well anywhere
I’m from Australia and I’ve started calling all groups of people yall because it’s gender neutral… very unaustralian term, and I love so much the irony of iconic southern terms being used to support trans activism
Why bother with importing y’all when we already have yous (or youse depending on how you want to spell it)? Or you could just treat ‘you guys’ as gender neutral, it effectively is these days with how people use it.
Youse is too damn bogan for my taste
Fair enough, it does have associations there. Pretty sure I’d toss y’all in the same basket though if I heard anyone trying to make it a thing though…
absolutely this
youse and torlet
As an Australian, why bother importing “y’all” when everyone is already “mate”?
I was going to say something similar, but thinking everyone is “cunt”.
Yes, it’s gender neutral.
Too right, mate.
Do we have yous/youse? According to my understanding that’s technically not a real word yet, it’s slang.
I feel like y’all is the newer American version of 2nd person plural, while yous/youse/yinz are the non-American English counterparts.
I have always used you guys in a gender neutral manner historically, but people occasionally got offended by that. So I started using y’all several years ago and it’s been going pretty good. Although I did initially spell it like ya’ll until someone corrected me on reddit 😅
A lot of trans femmes myself included cannot see ‘guys’ as gender neutral no matter how hard we try and so do not like it.
People who claim “guys” is gender neutral would most often only count men when asked the question “How many guys did you sleep with in your life?”
Until I find a single person who immediately thinks of people of any gender at that question, I will not fall for the internalized misogyny of “‘guys’ is gender neutral” meme. (Same with “dudes” and all the other ones I’ve seen over the years. I’ve even seen someone say “bro” is gender neutral.)
That’s rough. That said as a trans woman (no idea what a trans-femme is) I don’t see a problem with it in the context of “you guys”.
I use “dude” as a general exclamation towards my own also-trans gf sometimes even. Really y’all oughta chill on the language policing. If you pass people will treat you like the gender you look like, if you don’t, they won’t really, no matter how much they try, and your main issue is not passing and thus money which can fix that, not other people and their language use.
Oof. Passing is an archaic concept, just use the language for people that doesn’t make them feel uncomfortable.
A trans femme is someone who is often taking estrogen etc, it can refer to trans women as well but also referes to those who don’t completely identify or at all as a woman, see nonbinary folks for example. It’s kind of a catch all term.
Who said anything bout language policing? I was merely saying for myself. I think passing is a pojntless binary concept and not even all cis women ‘pass’. So I’m not all that interested in passing 100%, just being happy to be me.
I have regularly called groups of females “you guys” since childhood. It’s extremely neutral in a lot of the country.
Okay, but not everybody is going to be comfortable with it and so are you saying you would not change your speech for them?
Also which country?
The US. And yes, I will continue to use the phrase “you guys” because it’s a phrase that means “you people”. I can’t anticipate every illogical thing that will offend people. If someone called me out on it in person I would try not to use the phrase to address them specifically but I would also think they were being very silly.
It always confuses me when people say ‘offend’ people, because usually it is not offense they feel etc.
Well, that’s not a very fair way of treating/thinking of people, some people are going to be hurt or upset by certain things and it’s better to understand that we all have emotions and they are not pointless just because you see no value in them i.e. ‘illogical’. It’s better to work together and find ways of communicating that aren’t genuinely hurtful ioo.
I’m German and I use y’all all the time when speaking English. it’s funny, most of my English is from the internet so it’s the most crazy mix of english
Yous in Scotland is great to wind up Proper English speakers. If they whinge they get a y’all
My boss says “you’ll”
“Y’all” has wider reach than this map suggests, particularly in black and queer communities.
In what context(s)?
Is guys really needed after youse?
The guys is needed where there’s no 2.pl pronoun to distinguish from individual you, but youse fixes that
I can’t speak for anyone else, but you seem to be missing the biggest issue with this map: saying “you guys” excludes anyone but those identifying as male. You may not mean it that way, but I’ve had women be offended when I used that in the past, and I wouldn’t like being referred to as a “gal” in a group of women. It’s just not accurate.
Personally, for a gender-neutral way of addressing a group, I like “you folks”.
☝️🤓 - HR sounding ass
☝️🤓 - ignoring the impact of inherently masculine gendered language on non-men sounding ass
Sincerely, a trans woman
Your overthinking is what makes you offended.
And which minority group do you belong to that makes you an expert on their issues?
Alternate reply: oh no my feewings you win
Being in a minority doesn’t make one an expert on anything… ?
I studied linguistics. What I learned is that words never carry meaning on themselves.
I’m not invalidating your feelings. You immediatly thought I intended to offend you (or to “win” against you)? No, it’s the opposite. I intended to help you be less offended for no reason. Natural languages are always weird and overthinking about the exact words that people say is pointless. What’s important is the intention behind these words. There’s no “masculine language” because words never carry meaning themselves, it’s you decide to have victim mentality. A woman can say “you guys” and not intend to be sexist, and a sexist person can speak in the least “masculine” language and be hurtful.
So like, just because you ‘studied’ linguistics you think that makes you an expert on how language should always be used or that people should not feel a certain way about language just because you say so?
That’s not exactly a compelling argument.
Language is always going to carry certain meanings for some folks and we do a disservice to people by ignoring that, we all have our own personal lexicons/semantic meanings to a degree and that will likely never change, we do best by understanding this and working together to understand and accept when certain language can be hurtful and thus find ways of talking that do work for each other.
I feel that’s a better way of being than talking down to someone like you just did and telling them that how they feel about it doesn’t matter and they should just get with the program, which is never going to work.
Why are you trying to be manipulative like that?.. Just like people are trying to be intentionally offended, you pretend that my comment is arrogant and “talking down”, pretending to be an expert…
So like, just because you ‘studied’ linguistics you think that makes you an expert on how language should always be used or that people should not feel a certain way about language just because you say so?
No, that’s not at all what I said… I don’t pretend to be a linguistic expert, I’m just expressing an opinion. I don’t want to dictate how languages should be used (quite the opposite, which is what I’m saying: it’s different for everyone and intentions are more important than dictionary explanations). And I didn’t mean to dictate how someone should feel, I’m just expressing my opinion based on my personal experience that it’s better to be lighter on your head about languages (not that you HAVE to because I’m an “expert”, sorry for having an opinion again, feel free to ignore it).
That’s not exactly a compelling argument
You just beat a strawman (or whatever it’s called) There was no “argument” based on my “expertise”, you intentionally misinterpreted it like that.
Language is always going to carry certain meanings for some folks and we do a disservice to people by ignoring that, we all have our own personal lexicons/semantic meanings to a degree
You are right, we have different “idiolects” (individual dialects), our words are vague, and when we communicate, we need to understand what the other person MEAN. There’s no point in being offended when offense was not intended. Words are not hurtful, but meanings are. The exact words are not important because their meanings vary from person to person. I don’t know why I need to explain that…
I feel that’s a better way of being than talking down to someone like you just did and telling them that how they feel about it doesn’t matter and they should just get with the program, which is never going to work
I never said that someone’s feelings do not matter… Stop being manipulative…
Empathy and caring how others want to be referred to is HR?? Lol, wild…
Kamala lost. The idpol of kinder language is a trashfire and a failure because the assumption that “empathy” is a shared quality among humanity is wrong and “bloodlust” is actually far more common, while complete ignorance and anti-intellectualism and accusations of “overthinking” prevail over both as you can see in the programming.dev techbro below.
Talking about how language influences views of marginalized or minority groups is useless when most people can barely even read more than a paragraph without bitching because they never developed reading stamina.
As for those who make these conversations necessary in the first place - they will always use the meanest word they can and all this has done is fed fuel to reactionaries.
There are far more important real fights to fight, like access to HRT and surgeries for people suffering from gender dysphoria - a crippling disorder, before you metropolitan libs start going on about “trans-femmes” and “masculine gendered language”
Wow, the award for quickest turnaround for proving the point goes to…
What?
English is not my native language. I felt kinda weird about using “you guys” until I heard a woman that used “you guys” to a 100% woman group. I stopped caring about that shit because natural languages are weird and it all doesn’t matter. What matters is the intention of what you say, not its form. Y’all should stop caring about fixing other people’s speech too.
I would have thought that “y’all” is even more so gender neutral and therefore less offensive/more accepted. It’s a contraction of “you all” right?
Yeah, I’m in the “you guys” zone and I say y’all, it’s always better received.
Y’all has become my goto nowadays, up in the northeast
The y’all zone is all zones apparently.
Honestly it’s just so useful. It should be the default.
I picked it up when I lived in Houston, but when I was bartending and stuff after returning to my home state, I’d use it heavily.
Interestingly, though, it made people think I was from another country entirely? Because in absolutely no other way do I sound even remotely southern. (I do use various non-American slang, but not with strangers) Was always a blast to have someone ask where I was from, and try to get them to pinpoint why they didn’t think I was local, when I was born 15 minutes from where the conversation was taking place :p
