Philosophy Tube recently did a great video on exactly this. It’s on Nebula for those who subscribe.
“Stop being intolerant that I’m a fucking asshole!”
This is my attitude whenever someone complains about there being too much ‘politics’ in everything.
Everything touches politics, but we only notice it when it adversely effects us. The people who take as granted that politics is it’s own thing are usually the people who are the most privileged by it.
I think I can explain the bad taste the comic leaves in my mouth regarding politics (and generally a lot of the discussion). It’s not that everything isn’t politics, it’s that everything is being framed as “two-sided politics”, black/white, red/blue. An argument can be made that with “the system”(america), yes voting action can be viewed that way. But it’s subjugating the entire conversation 100% of the time.
For instance, what policy is this comic critiquing and bringing awareness too? It feels like the lowest effort-bottom of the barrel attempt at a political cartoon for the clicks and ragebait. It’s not calling attention to any individuals or organizations involved, it’s a satirical stabbing for communities that are really hurting.
Anti Trans bills running totals
656 bills
49 states
13 passed
621 active
22 failed
I know the media will never report on most of this if any of it, but it’s no secret the party that currently has control of three branches of government, including the most blatantly corrupt supreme court in US history, is actively trying to make trans people illegal, illegal to exist, or to be recognized, illegal to be publicly trans, and legal to deny medical treatment towards.
I don’t blame you if you missed this movement happening right now, as it’s not widely reported, but it’s a huge problem and the cartoon is explicitly a MAGA republican stabing a trans person and calling it ‘‘just politics’’ and telling them to not take it personally.
Imagine the controlled opposition, aka the liberals, if they never mentioned or gave in to talking about trans people. because we know they don’t care. These people trans folk wouldn’t have been put in the crosshairs like they were. It’s like thanks, but no thanks. The more you help, the worse it gets. And we saw them turn tail real quick, especially when they know they need to recalibrate their messaging because the next election they are going to struggle to get people to vote. But at the end of the day, capitalism is unsustainable. The theatrics of our political Masters are just looking for the boogeyman, something to get upset about, to take away from the fact that the capitalist class are robbing us blind. The left wing needs to focus on only economics because from my experience it’s hard to tell rich people what to do.
I agree. The bad taste is not that while not wrong per-se, it’s just reduces a complex issue into “red bad” while wholly failing to acknowledge that Democrats have been complicit in facilitating the Overton Window this far.
“Progressives” are really hard on the “REPUBLICANS DID THIS!” and never really pick up on the “and Democrats met them half way.”
This blue no matter who reduction hopes to hide liberalism is the slow road to fascism.
The problem isn’t meany racist MAGAts. It’s the entire system spending decades working overtly toward fascism with a bunch of clueless fucking rubes staring complacently.
“The real problem with this murder is that the police didn’t do enough to stop it. You should blame they police just as much, if not more, than the murderer.”
No, the murderer is to blame. Yes, you can criticise those that should have prevented it for not doing more, but the people actually doing the bad thing are worse than the people not stopping the bad thing.
If someone stole your wallet the person who stood there and watched it happen is not the person you should be focusing on.
Yes, they are part of the system. You’re so eager to disagree you don’t understand you’re making my point.
You all won’t be able to fix anything if you’re more focused on what feels good to yell about you can’t focus on the root cause.
Isn’t it totally obvious what the comic is critiquing? There are too many people out there who vote for racist parties that want to eliminate people in their social circle and that are totally butthurt when they get called out for that and are bitter when those people don’t want to have anything to do with them afterwards. “It’s just politics”
Idk, I think it’s VERY SPECIFICALLY about trans rights, but I just can put my finger on why…
I’ll just blanket reply @Snowclone@lemmy.world and @nahostdeutschland@feddit.org here since it’s all basically the same response I’m getting with attempts at insults sprinkled in.
I guess I’m reiterating, “This is a shit comic that does nothing for anyone but the creator getting rageclicks.” It’s the difference between Dane Cook or George Carlin stand up, punching up or punching down, etc. “656 anti trans bills” (please actually link useful facts snowclown 1,2) This comic didn’t bring up a single one of them, or their authors or their districts where efforts could be made to make progressive movements.
but again, I’m critiquing the comic and it’s attempt at … being something? I suppose I feel it’s more harmful than helpful, helps incite more rage than awareness. It’s an absurd scenario in which a maga person looking at this “knows” they wouldn’t stab someone so they can shrug off the hyperbole (while still supporting politicians that undermine transrights). On the progressive side we just have bullshit political polarization.
There’s deeper conversations and fundamentals to get into which can be debated but irregardless my only gripe is “it’s a lazy comic taking easy swings at low hanging fruit that just further muddies the water instead of progressing anything”. I think if you’re going to be faux-edgy, you should probably stay out of making such direct political statement cartoons.
I think you actually don’t like the message of the comic, because if you didn’t like it or thought it was lazy, you would probably move on.
For me, this comic represents my lived experience. I have had people in my life literally say “It’s just politics” and call trans people sexually deviant pedophiles at the same time. And if you haven’t had that happen to you, good for you. But I like the comic because it is simple, short, and pretty good at conveying that feeling.
Sorry if that feels lazy to you, art is subjective, but I think the message of this is pretty fucking obvious because of its simplicity.
I try to reply instead of downvoting, healthier for discourse and sometimes opens up new perspectives from others. I also try not to abandon conversations (though I have hundreds in my inbox I haven’t gotten to).
I don’t appreciate the shift in trying to pin me with your own thoughts so probably best to end the chain, but I’ll still validate and not argue your experience because it is art (begrudgingly admitted) and you are human.
I hate this art style almost as much as I hate Ben Garrison’s
What a mean thing to say for no reason…
Well its the same reason any comments on any art style(like Ben Garrison’s)
People hated her on reddit too. Some of the comics are kinda lame but I don’t get the explicit hate. They can just scroll past them lol
I think part of the problem on Reddit was people just didn’t get the message she kinda sucks, and would post her bland, middle of the road takes everywhere.
It’s extremely bland, isn’t it?
It looks pretty normal to me…
Idk, it almost just depresses me to look at it. Something about it feels like 2000s benign
I tried to support this artist on Patreon. Heard there were NSFW comics there. Well, yes, but mostly a creepy OnlyFans-esque collection of nearly nude sexy photos of the artist, with frequent calls for payment for explicit nudes.
Only artist Patreon I’ve ever unsubscribed from for content reasons. (I’m married, intended to support an artist, not to gawk at an OnlyFans.) From what I can tell from kemono, she’s still doing it.
I’m genuinely not sure if I’m being too sensitive or if this is genuinely behavior that shouldn’t be supported. Comics like this one are really good. I’m torn.
I think I would be the same way tbh. Like I don’t care that they do it, but I defo wouldn’t expect it in the same place as art content. Although it’s allowed, I think I would do the same as what you did.
If you’re trying to understand an artist then you’ve already failed.
It is perfectly fine that you don’t like the behaviour, but that doesn’t mean the behaviour isn’t valid.
I also think it is strange, but not something detrimental. You subscribe to her account, you get comics and nudes. I don’t see a problem with that, but I can understand if it’s problematic for you due to different surrounding circumstances.
It’s detrimental when low-effort, inane, late comics like the above get posted constantly and her rabid, parasocial-brain pay-masturbators proceed to harass any valid criticism.
Pizzacake is incredibly popular, therefore there will be a crowd who vehemently defends every action. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Low-effort? Maybe, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. Inane? That’s a completely invalid argument and shows you’re just trying to be insulting. Everything else you say is true.
It is absolutely inane. You know what the poorly drawn, oddly-sized, barely present, not-even-bleeding knife-wound adds? Nothing. Who reading this requires a stabbing to understand the context? Nobody. How many months and from how many thousands of MAGA morons has she profited in advertising her titty photos with bland, humourless, safe comics? She could have had no knife and made it clear that yes even just supporting MAGA is stillbdetrimental to your “friend”. Or she could have leaned into her idea and had a knife-wound that actually looks like a knife-wound. Nope. Make it silly, take the edge off, keep it safe, please don’t unsubscribe if you’re not actually knifing transpeople then you’re probably fine.
Man, you have some weirdly strong feelings towards something you can just ignore and let other people enjoy.
that your comment is 2/1 is just dumb.
sometimes social media is stupid, all of those people who gave you downvotes for that are stupid
It could have just been the person who has now been banned from Lemmy.world and has been creating accounts to downvote me.
It’s a valid point and complaint that they went to the Patreon page of a comic artist looking for comics, and got something entirely different to what they were looking for.
There’s a lot more porn on the Internet than good comic strips.
You have to pay at a certain tier to get the nudity. If you don’t, then you don’t get anything explicit.
I think you’re being too sensitive tbh. The artist probably really needs the money if they’re doing onlyfans. Just let your partner see the what and why, and there shouldn’t be an issue.
I don’t care to support any only fans content. At the same time, I love the art the comic creator creates. I relate to your feeling of being torn
More power to them. And you did what you’re meant to do on the internet, “I don’t like that” leave and move on. Thinking about it and justifying yourself is a bit weird.
I’m genuinely not sure if I’m being too sensitive or if this is genuinely behavior that shouldn’t be supported.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with that content existing, and being something people can pay for, but you’re also not being too sensitive for not personally wanting to pay that artist, if your surrounding circumstances would make the access to explicit content then seem a little unsavory in your particular case.
Ideally, that artist would let you pay for just the non-NSFW content, or simply send a tip/donation directly, instead of requiring the NSFW content to be bundled with any attempt at payment, but that doesn’t mean that offering NSFW content itself “shouldn’t be supported,” even if it’s not desirable in your case.
Absolutely. If there was a set of tiers that had NSFW drawn comics and absolutely zero mention of any risqué photos, I’d subscribe again. “Character Cosplays” is in every tier and really shouldn’t be. (And should really be clearer that this includes like hand-bra photos and such. “Note: contains sexually suggestive photos of the artist” or something.)
Ideally, that artist would let you pay for just the non-NSFW content
They do. I don’t know if this person just decided to grab the highest tier without reading or something, but the lowest tiers don’t have anything explicit associated with them.
It’s pretty hard to miss too. I just went there from the link in their comic:
“Character Cosplays” includes like hand-bra photos and images that are clearly the first couple images leading into a strip tease.
It’s a sort of emotional bait and switch. “Come support me, there’s nsfw comics.” “Ooh I love those, my wife loves those, I’m in.” “Whoops, actually there’s also these risqué photos. Maybe your wife will be ok with it, maybe not. You can choose to have the conversation if you want. But now I’ve handed you a problem, unless you want to just immediately unsubscribe. In which case I still keep the money but you get nothing. Thanks for your support!”
Oh damn well I stand corrected
Most of the comics artist do NSFW on Patreon. It’s nothing too crazy. I guess. Like top of artist on r/comics make NSFW comics on Patreon.
I think you misunderstood, this was pictures of the artist naked, not erotic art.
Which is definitely not something most artists do.
I don’t know anything about this particular artist, but nude photography is super normal in the art world at large? I’m confused as to what makes nude photography ‘not art’ to you.
It seems like you might be purposely missing the point, which wouldn’t be a very cool thing for you to do, but I’ll treat it as though you are genuinely confused.
Nobody here is arguing that nude photography isn’t art. Nobody is arguing that the artist shouldn’t be able to make money selling that content as art. The point is that outside of patreon, there’s no sign of nude photography. Only once I support the artist on patreon do I see their nude photography. It should be clear what I will receive from the creator when I support them on patreon, and here it isn’t clear, I was given something I didn’t ask for. I understand I can just skip over it, but there are a bunch of reasons why I wouldn’t want NSFW stuff mixed in with my normal content feed, such as browsing at work or on the train. Plus, with a partner, if they see that and think that I am paying for someone’s only fans (or equivalent) it’s a difficult discussion to have. Sure, it will hopefully all end up being fine in the end with an understanding partner, but still, it’s not something I would have signed up for had I known.
Oh didn’t know that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don’t want to see most internet artists naked. If she’s pretty and talented, then more power to her.
There is a difference between nsfw drawings and nudes of the actual artist
Out of curiosity, what did they look like?
Not every photo was like this, but the ones that forced my hand were clearly suggestive of a strip-tease. And that specifically is what I didn’t want in my Patreon feed, in between her NSFW comics (which I enjoyed!) and other pervy content creators and, you know, retro gaming and science YouTubers.
My wife looks at pervy stuff too, and we share links / peep at each other’s monitors, etc. And honestly she might be totally fine with it, especially if I explained it. I just felt like it wasn’t worth having an uncomfortable conversation with my wife over. It felt like an inconsiderate emotional bait and switch. “Hey Reddit, come to my Patreon for pervy comics.” … “Now that you’ve already paid, and unsubscribing would mean I keep the money and you get nothing … surprise, there’s also nearly-nude or hand-bra-type pics, that you can’t remove, with frequent reminders that the $50 tier gets full nudes. Now I’ve handed you a problem. Now you have to deal with this. Thanks for your support!”
I don’t think kemono has everything archived but you can see enough there to get a picture of what she’s been doing. And I want to take a moment to subvert that scummy call-and-response site spam pattern that gets used. I’ve only ever visited this site with ublock Origin on Firefox, so it could have the worst sort of pop up cancer and I wouldn’t know any better. If you visit, keep your shields up. But kemono seems to be a site that mirrors Patreon and other similar sites, via users contributing their logged in session keys and letting the site mirror whatever they have access to. I didn’t know about kemono dot Sierra Uniform until recently and I have no idea if references to it are kosher. But there you go.
ಠಿ_ಠ
Didn’t see her Patreon or OF but She really look like IRL version of Comic Character.
I would not say you’re being overly sensitive. I think it’s frustrating that they don’t just have a separate pattern or OF for that kind of content.
She is within her rights, and so are you.
Ironically, this is valid version of the above comic’s invalid application of agreeing to disagree. Neither of you are hurting the other by having differing opinions.
If you haven’t already, you should send a message to the artist voicing your moral support but explaining why you can’t financially support her.
I’m genuinely not sure if I’m being too sensitive or if this is genuinely behavior that shouldn’t be supported.
Too sensitive.
You don’t have to be RUDE to me, I just want your abuelos rounded up and deported/ in a prison/ forced labor camp/ disappeared what’s the problem here!?
More often than not, MAGA tend to stab themselves in the back. They just don’t have the self-awareness for it.
99% of partisan voters do this, unfortunately.
At least, that’s the case if you look back at the last eight years. It’s a testament to the grip that the rich have on the poor here that anyone still votes Democrat or Republican.
BUT, I agree 100%. If your politics are deliberately harmful to marginalized groups, it’s pretty fucked up to make the argument that “it’s just politics”.
It’s so easy to ignore how one of Biden’s final acts as president was to deny Transgender Americans healthcare through TRICARE.
Anti-LGBT bills have been flooding state and federal legislatures, and only a handful of Democrats have been brave enough to oppose them.
I have called multiple democratic senators and representatives about the fact that employment and housing protections for transgender people have been stripped in Oklahoma - that it’s been a problem for the last 4 years. No one gives a shit.
I’ve got a TEACH grant that I did 3/4 years of before they made it impossible to continue teaching without moving to another state. I promised to teach in OK for 5 to get further financial incentives. I would love to be in a classroom but it is de facto illegal and several de jure things make that impossible.
No one has given a shit. No one gives a shit. We can get murdered, and our deaths might make the news, but then the state can cover it up (Nex, the trans woman in Grove). The Dems have left POC and LGBT people in the south to fight their States alone.
Pretty much every damn thing is political.
“it’s just politics” is such an empty statement.
Pretty much every damn thing is political.
“it’s just politics” is such an empty statement.
Among my tacklebox of electronic components is a small baggie of microswitches because of my politics. Right to repair and all that, I specifically keep a stock of switches to keep my old Logitech mice going rather than buy new mice. Everything is political.
was thinking of saying the knife should be in the back but the artist is right. this is pretty in the front.
The upside to Fascism is that it’s never back in town for long. You don’t have to worry about it becoming the new status quo.
The bad news is, you do absolutely have to fight tooth and nail because although it will take itself out in the end, it will take innocent people with it. The reason we fight is to do three things
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Minimize the damage
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Make it harder for Fascism to come back
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Create a new status quo to replace the one that was so bad that people wanted to do fascism in the first place.
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Yeah now with trump them trans kids have to show them genituls at sports events.
What do you mean I don’t have insurance anymore? I don’t understand!
Pretty much the level of thinking of these people.
I’m honestly surprised we haven’t accused the people demanding “Genital Searches” of being paedos
A lot are looking at things like COL increases and one party claims they’re gonna lower prices and lower taxes and they don’t think about all the benefits they get from certain policies that are likely to be reversed and seem to think the biggest government budget is foreign aid, so all you have to do is cut that to solve the problems.
Sometimes they become selfawarewolves. Is there an instance like leopardsatemyface on lemmy?
Edit: yup !leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world
But they’ll be happy about it if it hurts someone else they don’t like in the process.
Isn’t that the saddest thing? Imagine being motivated by hatred. Feels like such a shitty thing to live for.
Imagine having so little to be proud of in your life that you chose to side with the oppressors in order to feel some vague sense of accomplishment.
I’ll take my downvotes, but while I agree with the sentiment in this particular comic I have no fucking interest in seeing shitty pizzacake and her no-punchline comics or her army of sycophants here on Lemmy.
I will never understand why some of you insist on bringing the garbage we left Reddit to escape over here to Lemmy. Let pizzacake have her tiny window of microcelebrity on reddit and please spare the rest of us this bullshit.
just for that and every incel comment on this post I think I’ll write a bot that posts weekly PCC.
I’ll upvote every one lol. I do not get the hate this artist gets. There is so much real shit to be angry about, why do they waste their tears on this
I’ll take my downvotes, but while I agree with the sentiment in this particular comic I have no fucking interest in seeing shitty pizzacake and her no-punchline comics or her army of sycophants here on Lemmy.
“REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”
I will never understand why some of you insist on bringing the garbage we left Reddit to escape over here to Lemmy. Let pizzacake have her tiny window of microcelebrity on reddit and please spare the rest of us this bullshit.
We kimosabe? I left Reddit because because its rapidly becoming a rightwing hellhole and it’s inevitable enshitification due to being centralized and privately owned. Go create your own circlejerk club lemmy instance that hates pizzacake. Or just filter it.
Or IDK, downvote and move on. Lambasting a comic book artist in the comments because you see them as undeserving of their success is aggressively elitist hipster douchebaggery.
You should be like me and make everyone hate you for reasons that matter (Telling them their politics and philosophy is shit and stupid) and not arbitrary culture in-group-out-group elitism.
Reddit is far from a right wing hell hole. I haven’t logged on in over a year but jumping to the front page is 4/5 push back against the right with the other 1/5 just “am I over reacting” posts with a sprinkle of cats and everyday humor.
Maybe you’re referring to ownership?
I think you’re asking for the moon here, pal.
You’re not wrong. The fact that I’m fighting a knowing losing battle doesn’t make it less meaningful in my eyes, however.
I can respect that. Go forth with my blessing, brave knight.
It might help if you included, like, any real information at all since this is so important and meaningful to you. Or just keep raging into the night like a lunatic lol.
I agree with you. These comics are pretty low effort excuses to shill a NSFW patreon. In other words, ads.
It’s best to leave these to reddit.
I appreciate that but I do want to be clear, I do not care if pizzacake has an onlyfans or uses her comics to advertise said onlyfans. I am sex positive, and aggressively pro-sex worker, so I will never disparage pizzacake or anyone else for their sexuality or participation in sex work of any kind.
This is not my objection to pizzacake and I strongly agree with those who rightly call out the criticism of her which boils down to judgement of her for her onlyfans. My issues is with the comic content she makes, how she conducts herself online, and mostly with her army of sycophants.
I personally wish pizzacake nothing but success in her onlyfans endeavors and she deserves to be as free from misogynistic comments wrongfully judging her for her sex work as anyone else.
Oh yeah I didn’t mean to imply selling NSFW content is bad or a moral failing of some sort, because its not. Same way pushing boner pills on prime time cable isn’t some sort of moral failing, I just don’t care for it and have no desire to have that content pushed to me, so I avoid it.
My quibble with pizzacake is the low effort level of pushing these ads. If she was selling artisinal mittens and using low effort comics to push that I’d feel the same. It’s just extra weird because the rabid fanbase will jump down your throat to the point that you have to post paragraphs denouncing misogynist intent just to point out that these comics are low effort ads.
I understood your objection was with them as advertisements and wasn’t trying to imply otherwise, I just wanted to clarify my own position due to the commonality of criticism of pizzacake for her sex work which, again, I adamantly object to.
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong with this message, but Pizzacake as a creator sucks.
Low effort garbage made by someone who buys upvotes in an attempt to shill her NSFW patreon.
“Why can’t everyone else just hate the same things I hate!?”
Imagine being this worked up about a webcomic, shitty or otherwise.
Also “this worked up”, lol.
Just curious, exactly how worked up do you think a person must be to undertake the Herculean effort of making a drive-by Lemmy comment?
Yes clearly this is consuming the whole of my being.
I mean, you replied twice to my comment, to let me know you weren’t worked up, so…
Also stating
passivity in the face of decline has always been the preferable option. Protecting our sacred decorum is so much more important than maintaining a critical eye and standards
makes me think you’re taking it pretty damn seriously lol
Yeah boredom on a slow day at work can’t exist.
And my level of investment automatically invalidates any point I make right? Because that’s how discussions work, discredit and invalidate the arguer rather than the argument.
Cool interaction.
So maybe consider channeling that boredom into something productive instead of tearing down something you don’t like, that has zero tangible impact on your life.
Anyway, you’re right this is not a great interaction, so take 'er easy.
These people want Lemmy to be Reddit and don’t understand why that’s a problem. You are quite literally pissing in the chud winds. I upvoted you, but I do think you’re wasting your time outside of your initial comment.
And my level of investment automatically invalidates any point I make right?
You’re acting like their response was ever intended to be a thorough breakdown of your argument and why it’s wrong lol.
All they said was an exaggerated paraphrase of your comment for comedic effect and then wondered how you could get so worked up over this.
Yeah boredom on a slow day at work can’t exist.
I totally understand this. Putting way more effort into a comment than I need to because of a slow day at work is exactly what I’m doing rn lol.
But that’s not what’s indicative of you getting worked up. It’s the defensiveness and comments that read as bitterly aggressive.
I’ll take my downvotes, but while I agree with the sentiment in this particular comic I have no fucking interest in seeing shitty pizzacake and her no-punchline comics or her army of sycophants here on Lemmy.
I will never understand why some of you insist on bringing the garbage we left Reddit to escape over here to Lemmy. Let pizzacake have her tiny window of microcelebrity on reddit and please spare the rest of us this bullshit.
I’ll raise you one better and do a revision of your original comment.
I’ll take my downvotes… wait no, I probably shouldn’t start a comment off like this because it only shows I’m bitter that people don’t agree with me, let me start again.
While I disagree with the sentiment of @Vespair@lemm.ee’s original comment, I do think that there’s one thing we should be not be bringing over from Reddit. Gatekeeping.
I will never understand why some of you insist on bringing the garbage we left Reddit to escape over here to Lemmy. Let holier-than-thou gatekeeping stay on Reddit. Most if not all of us moved to this platform for its freedom from ads, algorithm manipulations and for more meaningful curation of our online interactions.
We should want this for all people, and that includes the people who post stuff we don’t like. Those people aren’t ruining Lemmy, they’re keeping it diverse, and exercising their right to use a platform that isn’t controlled by a company who is selling their data and manipulating their world view in the interest of those who care about nothing more than consolidating more wealth and power, at the expense of their users. In some cases at the expense of geopolitical stability and people’s actual lives.
Your sentiment isn’t different just because you couch it in decorum. I’ve played that game long enough, I’m over it. You are very good at it though, kudos.
Yeah, passivity in the face of decline has always been the preferable option. Protecting our sacred decorum is so much more important than maintaining a critical eye and standards. Great take.
deleted by creator
We really need a deadly plague that’s easy to vaccinate against.
That would be cruel, as it would cost countless innocent lives of those who cannot be vaccinated because of preexisting conditions, allergies or whatever.
I’d be interested in the cost analysis of lives saved from MAGA’s hate crimes vs lives lost to inability to vaccinate.
Fortunately it’s just daydreaming as no one has control of this runaway cart.
That, but the biggest losers here will be the children of anti-vax parents. They don’t deserve to die because their parents are idiots. Same goes with “faith” healing.
It’s silly to me to see either side point a finger and say “they do this or that” . The minute you categorized a single person as a group you already lost the argument. This applies to both sides. Don’t be a fool and decide that if your friend votes differently than you that it’s an attack on you personally. There are only 2 main voted for parties with many different stances on many different things all lumped into a party. Just bc you’re in part A doesn’t mean you agree with all of it.
Yeah idk why you’re getting downvoted. A major part of the problem in my opinion is bucketing people and making huge generalizations based off the culture wars that the bourgeoisie has created to get us bickering amongst ourselves.
False equivalency. Categorizing all MAGA like the portrayal in this political cartoon is not the same as categorizing a whole type of people as some stereotype.
Stereotypes are not factual. Some may have a basis in reality, many have no basis in reality. In almost all cases stereotypes are degrading, and statistically impossible to apply to all members of a certain group, despite people using verbiage in the stereotypes indicating it is inherent to all members (e.g. “All Asians are bad drivers”)
MAGA as portrayed here is categorically factual. By definition MAGA supports Trump and his policies. His policies are harmful to trans people. Therefore, all MAGA are harmful to trans people strictly because of the policies they support.
Bringing it back to the “all Asians are bad drivers” example, if we modified it to say “all bad drivers are bad drivers”, then that would be more of an equivalent to the categorization of MAGA depicted. Because the categorization is the definition of the group, rather than taking a group and assigning it an attribute totally unrelated to its definition (e.g. race, gender, even political party as not all republicans are on board with maga)
I see what you’re getting at, but there are a few issues with your argument. The biggest problem is that it overgeneralizes MAGA supporters in a way that actually undermines the point it’s trying to make. Yeah, MAGA as a movement backs Trump and his policies, and many of those policies have been harmful to trans people. But saying every single MAGA supporter is inherently harmful to trans people just by association is a bit of a leap. Not all MAGA supporters are equally informed, engaged, or even fully on board with every single thing Trump does. Some people support him for economic reasons, immigration policy, or just because they feel alienated by mainstream politics (most of what I’ve seen from those I’ve met who “support MAGA”)…not necessarily because they have an issue with trans people. Acting like its a monolith where everyone in it is equally responsible for every policy oversimplifies things.
Also, the categorically factual claim doesn’t really hold up. There’s a difference between supporting Trumps policies and actively harming trans people. Yes, Trumps policies have been harmful, but does every MAGA supporter personally advocate for those policies? Do they all even know the specifics of them? Probably not. You could argue that passively supporting a movement that enacts harmful policies still contributes to harm, but that’s not the same as saying every individual supporter is personally out to get trans people.
At the end of the day, I get the frustration with MAGA as a movement. It pushes policies that hurt marginalized groups, and it’s going to wreck havoc on our standard of living. But treating every individual MAGA supporter as personally responsible for all of those policies flattens the complexity of why people support Trump in the first place. It’s totally fair to call out the movement, but it’s a stretch to claim that every person in it is harmful in the exact same way.
If we want to quash this movement , we need to really think about why people support it and identify root cause so we can quell it from the root instead of just attacking the surface. And a major component is going to be speaking with people’s elephants instead of their riders. We have to be the bigger people here and try to empathize even when it seems impossible. Attacking them just isn’t going to work. That’s just human nature for ya.
Anyway, thanks for commenting and taking the time to explain yourself. I hope this at least explains my position a bit better.
That’s precisely my argument. Voting motivations are not always rooted in animosity. Regardless of downvotes, I maintain my position. I have close friends with opposing political views who remain deeply loyal to one another. My intention was not to endorse any particular viewpoint, but rather to advocate against generalizations. I find it perplexing that this perspective has drawn negative feedback from both sides of the political spectrum.
I don’t disagree with the premise, but one group is literally siding with Trump and cheering on everything he does. You have a way to get through to them? Because so far, when you point out the issues, they just attack or claim you’re a sore loser.
Comment after 9 month. Come with your main account. XD
This is my only account and not sure what your eluding to here honestly. I don’t comment often nor do I spend much time on social media as I have a career and family to tend to. I still stand by my comment and have nothing to hide.
If someone isn’t comfortable speaking from their main account (which apparently isn’t the case here) then that’s more of a sign the community needs to change and be more open to differing points of view. It’s not always a problem with the individual, and implying that to be the case when it clearly isn’t is a toxic thing to do.
If you have to hide your point of view on this topic maybe you should take a look at yourself and try to figure out why you’re such a hateful asshole.
I would agree with you if the choice was between Trump and vampire Hitler, but Harris was such a better choice than Trump that to still vote for Trump requires that you approve of (at least) most of what he does. That alone is enough to make me think you’re a bad person.
My trumpet sister has wisely stopped praising her false god in my presence when they visit at least
Charisma increases by +10
Had kind of a similar conversation with my dad recently. “I’m sorry you feel that way.” “Well they’re cutting Medicaid, so we’ll see how that goes for you.”
‘I’m sorry you feel that way.’ He’s sorry you think people should have equal rights?
Your dad doesn’t have a political problem, he has a morality problem.
Even the non-apology “apology” is unacceptable!
I did call him out on that, for all the good it did.
It was actually about my job (I work for the federal government), but same issue. He, my mother, and my brother voted for something that directly impacts me.
There’s a guy up thread saying I shouldn’t take it personally, but how can I not? They’re the ones making jokes about how hard I don’t work.
Wow, a morality problem and an empathy problem, to their own kid no less. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that, and lessening contact (or cutting it) would be a perfectly understandable action.
Please remind us in four years what happens
If the Medicaid and social security things go through, it’ll be much sooner than that. My brothers and I paid for a new hvac system for their house last year, which gives an idea of the financial issue they are likely to face.
Tolerance paradoxically demands intolerance of the intolerant.
Specifically the lactose intolerant.
Those are ok, they can stay.
Usually they tend to move around reaching for a bathroom :p
I have a theory about lactose intolerance. You now how humans in general just struggle with digesting lactose unless the body has built up enzymes over time. I think lactose intolerant people are just dairy addicts haha.
I’ll just leave this here… (see alt text for TLDR)
It was pointed out to me a while back that the paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you consider tolerance to be a philosophical position.
In fact, we don’t treat it like that. We treat it as a social contract, in which context it is no paradox at all to say that if you aren’t tolerant then other people aren’t obliged to tolerate you in turn
That realization was life-changing for me. It finally gave me the clarity to walk away from toxic relationships, knowing they were the ones holding back any real growth.
The only downside is that trying to explain this to someone intolerant just gets you labeled, quote, “a stupid science bitch who can’t make them smarter.”
science bitches are the best kind
smart is sexy!
This here - the social contract view needs to be widely adopted
Agreed. Respect for what is essentially the golden rule is the bare minimum to be accepted by a rational society.
The term paradox was used because it comes from the “so much for the tolerant X” instances during mid XXth century. It’s the incorrect assumption that tolerance is somehow a foundational principle of some ideology, mainly left, socialist and communist ideology; just because they were protesting intolerant policy and stances from the right. The right stupidly believes that this means that the left advocates for unlimited tolerance of everything as an extension of fundamental freedoms, like free speech and free thought.
This was at a time when the debate on the lawful limits of freedom in democracies was being debated. In comes Karl Popper and produces the formal philosophical formulation of the paradox. He starts at freedom and demonstrates that in order for a free open and peaceful society to exist, then they must be tolerant, but, they must not held tolerance as a tenet, instead being intolerant of any intolerance. It is important as the first philosophical formulation of liberal democratic thinking. It actually distances itself from communism because, according to Popper, communism and even socialism will always end up in bloodshed, violence, and suffering.
The concept of social contract was not unknown to Popper, but it was not necessary for his argument to make sense. For, since Weber, it’s understood as a given that wherever humans happen to live in community, some form of social contract will exist. Popper is not concerned with the existence of the contract, but to argue about its content.
It’s not really a paradox when you think about it. In fact, it’s absolutely necessary.
Yeah i originally was going to write “seemingly paradoxically” but it made it seem more like I was saying “seems to demand…” And I wanted to make sure it came across as a definite, if you know what i mean.
It’s Karl Popper time!
Curious. How does that work when someone is beating you with a baseball bat or robbing you?
You don’t tolerate it…? Is this supposed to be a trick question? Sometimes when you don’t tolerate something, you are largely powerless against it and it still happens. Sucks, but that’s life. You don’t have to roll over and present your balls to the bat though.
As MartianSands pointed out, tolerance is not a philosophy; it is a social contract. When intolerance breaks that contract, the tolerant are under no obligation to tolerate it.
Gave a down arrow for the artist not the message
What’s wrong with the artist?
Probius answered your question for me
If you look at the subject matter she covers, it’s typically very safe, middle of the road stuff, at least considering her fan base, see MAGA BAD here as an example.
As a result, her comics are very middle of the road, bland and unimaginative.
It’s annoying how often political comics aren’t funny at all. They’re just bile. I guess some people find it affirming? I always just roll my eyes when I see this stuff, even when I agree with the message.
If “maga bad” is an uncontroversial take, then how come Donald Trump is the president?
at least considering her fan base
Do read the entire comment, yeah?
Right, so when Bernie Sanders says socialism is good, that’s a bland “middle of the road” take given his fan base?
If so, what even is the criticism supposed to mean?
Some people hate anything they perceive as popular, even within a niche.
Some people don’t like her because she makes a lot of comics that are like, “Haha, I have portrayed myself as the chad and you as the wojak, therefore I am superior!” Without having any actual comedic value. She also threatened r/bonehurtingjuice with legal action to make them ban remixes of her comics, something not even Stonetoss (the Nazi comic everyone hates) has done.
What is this shit? Every single time I see this uninspired bullshit-ass half-cocked nonsense it’s absolutely nothing. There is no joke here. There is no subtext. There is no comedy. This is just a series of vignettes showing things that wouldn’t be interesting if they happened to me. I wouldn’t find this engaging if I witnessed it occurring from across the room, and yet this artist has decided it deserved to be committed to MS Paint so that we could all witness their mundane life in perpetuity.
I mean, seriously, is this an NFT-type scam or something? Are they using their Patreon to launder money, and driving upvotes here in order to create the illusion that they could realistically be receiving that much? I just cannot fathom that something so “haha relatable” without the “haha” bit could be generating THOUSANDS of positive interactions.
That was pretty funny.
I found both examples kinda marginally funny.
Nothing nowhere near anything that would be reason to downvote some other piece of her work, like the one in the OP.
Beyond that, call me old fashioned, but copyright is copyright.
Yep, if they’re funny to you, then good for you. I’m not trying to claim that she’s objectively bad or anything like that. I’m just explaining why a lot of people don’t like her.
I liked both comics. I also like bone hurting juice. Fair use is valid.
So dine people don’t like her because she tells them to piss off? Not a bad reason for me.
She used to be pretty funny years ago, before she started focusing on hating her haters instead of making actual funny stuff. She started doing things like making a comic she knew would piss off some bigots in the comments, then making another comic (or a few) making fun of the people that hated on her to farm karma from the people who saw the original comic. Some people like that. It’s just a bit too toxic for me. I blocked her account a long time ago, so idk what she’s making these days.
those examples are terrible. does she not get to respond to all the hate she gets because she’s an artist or because she’s a woman?
either way you answer you’re wrong because anyone has the ability to respond to the hate and vitriol they receive.
I don’t know what’s more pathetic Example 1, Example 2 ; that fact that people are so butthurt over her they have to go out of their way to make her sound shitty, or the fact that people go out of their way to mention how much they hate her.
don’t like her? just ignore her, she can’t hurt you. just move on man…it’s just making you look sad and pathetic.
This comment has most of what I would say to reply to you, so I’m linking it. Could you point out exactly what I’ve said so far that led you to believe that I’m biased against PCC because she’s an artist or a woman?
cool story bro.
it’s not what you said, it’s that you said anything at all.
did you guys ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the reason why she makes fun of you is because you keep coming back with more hate? that she gains far more impressions and traffic on pointing out the hate and engaging with it instead of allowing it to steamroll her? that she somehow feels empowered when she calls out the sexist and vile shit people say to her–online–in public–for everyone to see?
of course not. why would you? you see pizzacake and you just get filled with so much raw emotion you can’t control yourself and lash out like a child only to be driven to attack…a comic artist…
stop acting like a petulant child.
She’s not actually making fun of them, though, she’s making fun of a stereotype which she imagines her “haters” to be.
The two linked examples are pretty much the definition of a strawman argument.
This shit is exactly why I don’t what pizzacake’s bullshit here. For some fucking reason if you dare say anything short of “great comic” you are immediately lambasted as some kind of social miscreant who must be motivated by anti-women rhetoric.
You are not allowed to dislike pizzacake comics.
“You don’t have to comment, you can just scroll!”
We’re fucking allowed to discuss content online, even critically.
But not pizzacake. For some reason pizzacake is fucking sacred and if you aren’t actively licking the shit out of her asshole you’re literally the devil.
This is exactly the fucking problem.
I haven’t spoken about PCC in, possibly, multiple years. I only posted because I was answering someone’s question.
did you guys ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the reason why she makes fun of you is because you keep coming back with more hate?
Well, she’s not making fun of me because I don’t leave those kinds of comments on her posts, but yeah, this is literally what I just said she was doing. It’s called rage-baiting and it’s going really well for her because the popularity she gains from it translates to Patreon memberships.
you see pizzacake and you just get filled with so much raw emotion you can’t control yourself and lash out like a child only to be driven to attack…a comic artist…
If by raw emotion you mean mild disappointment at the lack of a punchline, sure.
Just spitballing here, but it seems like you’re trying to turn me into something I’m not so that you have a target to spew hatred on. I’m not one of those people raging in the comments about “trans bad, me angry!11!” that I’m sure you love to hurl insults at on Reddit. I’m just someone that doesn’t like comics that I don’t find humorous.
just so I can get the message clear from you.
- you don’t want to interact with PCC at all
- you have zero intention of hurling insults
- you aren’t a rage baiting troll.
if that’s true then why did you;
- click on a post about a PCC comic
- read through the comments and pick the one comment that was rage bait to respond to
- provide a low effort “explanation” about why anyone should hate PCC with examples of the artist “retaliating” against her outspoken critics
I’m going to be honest with you, I’m having a really hard time understanding the logic you used to get here. so help me out.
you say you don’t like comics you don’t find humorous, yet you go out of your way to waste your time and effort to post a comment supporting a narrative that the artist is a terrible person for…defending themselves? not only that, you continue to return again and again to defend your position on an artist you claim you don’t care about…
from my perspective, it seems like you’re either a rage-baiting troll or you’re an enraged simp that’s upset because you feel personally attacked by a woman and now that your views are getting called out you’re too embarrassed and emotional to take a step back and evaluate your opinion.
give me a third option here, I’m not seeing a lot of other ways to view you right now.
Don’t forget about the comic she made downplaying the seriousness of male r*pe on mens mental health awareness day, and the arguments she participated in under her own post with male victims of SA.
Oh wow, that sounds positively charming.
Link?
they won’t respond because there is none.
Receipts have been posted above. Respectfully, I hope more people realize that when someone tries to paint every single one of their critics as being a misogynistic incel, that its a manipulation tactic. (Even though, yes, reddit is full of those too)
I find it really distasteful that she makes comics “in support” of trans people while denying those born as male can experience sexual assault. It’s just a different, more subtle/socially acceptable form of transphobia.
Sometimes comic artists and other creatives put characters in their works who have bad opinions they disagree with. Pizzacake doesn’t agree with the opinion that men can’t be raped, she just depicted it in a comic. Depiction isn’t the same as agreement. If it was, then George Lucas would be a Sith and Mary Shelley would be an abusive parent.
Here’s a r/SubredditDrama post that covers what was said before mods nuked the comments section
And another with more proof of mods nuking comments
I like her comic. It’s satire. She doesn’t agree with the misandry in the comic, you’re supposed to think the women’s opinions are wrong. She’s on the men’s side.
Yes, the comic is satire. The satire is “men getting treated the way female r*pe victims get treated”. Implying that male sexual assault doesn’t happen or that when it does, people actually believe them, when in reality men who are victims of this often just don’t speak up at all because when they are, they’re either not believed, called “gay” for not enjoying it, or it ends up reported with a headline like “female teacher has sex with male student”.
The fact she posted this comic on men’s mental health awareness day and proceeded to engage in arguments with male victims of SA in the comments - who were then banned without a chance to appeal - as well as her past of seeking out her critics to argue with even in other subreddits heavily indicates that this was inflammatory on purpose.
yes, she’s a “bitch” because she…posted a comic about the double standards between men and women. irony so thick it could kill you if your skull was any thinner.
I mean, what she posted isn’t even that bad. incels and simps get upset about it because they feel personally attacked, and they should.
if you get upset over her comics then you’re telling on yourself.
…did you respond to the wrong person or are you just making shit up to be mad at because you don’t have an argument?
This artstyle looks like “what if Control Alt Delete was drawn by someone who had fashion sense and also talent”.
I like it.
Same, It’s sad that art actually peaked in the 2000’s, everything has to be “On Model” and “Simplified” now.
Talent?
You seriously think this is a talented artist?
Well, compared to Tim Buckley, yes.
Slightly less half assed, I’ll grant you that.
Still, one of the most popular webcomics is XKCD, and he relies entirely on the humour in the strip.
