I only have one biological kid, he is 29 now. The other 3 are step kids. What I realized is that, for reasons probably too long to go on here, is:
- I am terrible with small kids, the younger, the worse time.
- Teenagers are easier for me to deal with
- I don’t get that “it’s worth it” or “this is the most rewarding thing” feeling. I feel like I should have never had any kids.when I am doing things with kids I am generally thinking “I want to do something else” not involving kids.
- While I am much better about it these days, there was a 10 year period where i dispised kids, with my spouse, at the time, not making the situation better. I don’t hate children, in general, anymore, I am still pretty ambivalent about anyone else kids.
That being said I love my kids, none of the above is their fault whatsoever. However,I totally get why people do not want kids.
It’s likely because you’re damaged and hopefully the generational abuse could at least improve with you
You’re a dick
No, but you’re welcome anytime to become a better person
I actually, literally, have no idea what you are getting at.
Dropped your /s mate. It doesn’t matter how clearly and objectively wrong the silly braindead sentiment you’re shitting out of your mouth is. No one will assume you’re being satirical. Everyone will just take your words at face value that you really are just a backward troglodyte mouth breathing waste of skin. But I’m willing to give you the benefit of a doubt that you said the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard since last Wednesday in jest.
Mentally stable take on hating kids. Stay safe
Wtf.
The only people really thinking it’s “the most rewarding thing” are narcissistic psycopaths.
Nope, I love kids because they are so pure and that you can see how most people are good underneath all the shit. It’s tough to have kids, but it doesn’t contrast this whatsoever. Things go downhill fast for families where they don’t connect with their kids though, and for those that hasn’t had that, they will say things like you with vitriol because it’s hard to look in the mirror. Also, I happen to think it’s the most rewarding thing, but it’s maybe not everyone’s thing. But all people I met that hate kids have been abused even if they haven’t recognised it yet. The boomers were in my opinion really good at not perpetuating the fear and punishment as much, but for people in general to experience how grounded honest connected kids act we have a ways to go.
You should seek professional help.
I have a lot of professional help. Is that yet another trigger for you?
Oh no an american republican that thinks people are “triggered”.
At work, I was recently on one of the coffee-fetching breaks. Well, I actually fetched my trusty herbal tea. Then we met another guy at the coffee machine and they all started talking about how much coffee they drank. Eventually, they came to the conclusion that they were all addicted, because they had kids. And I just stood there with my trusty herbal tea, like yep, I don’t have kids.
I assure you, many of us were drinking copious amounts of coffee before kids, too.
Uh…great story?
Thanks!
Married 18 years, no kids. I think I drink something like 36+ ounces of coffee a day. Myth disproven, I guess.
So my question is…why? Coffee has never been good, or good for you. It doesn’t get you drunk. It has mild addictive qualities.
I’m just not seeing a positive here.
What are you Mormon? Caffeine alone is mild but decent stimulant that can help in a decent enough number of ways, coffee also doesnt have the notable downsides of sodas and is relatively cheap. Mind you I prefer caffeinated drink mixes but still same results more or less.
Urinating after a 2 hour meeting where you needed to go within the first ten minutes because you consumed too much diuretic is definitely an overwhelmingly strong feeling of release. I think it’s a kink thing for people who are scared of being called kinky.
Who says coffee is not good for you? There’s a lot of benefits including reduced cancer risk supposedly. Lots of studies on it.
To be fair, I don’t have blood pressure issues and my resting heart rate can get into the low 60s if I’m not doing much, even when caffeinated. Coffee keeps me going, tastes good, and nothing better than a hot drink. I don’t drink soda or anything really besides water, tea (black teas and herbal), and coffee.
Sweet sweet survival juice
Also it’s healthier than energy drinks, by a lot
You sound like someone with undiagnosed ADHD.
Possibly. Never diagnosed officially but a doctor suspected ADHD when I was a kid. My mom never followed up since back in the 80s being weird or different wasn’t as acceptable as today.
As an adult my wife suspected autism as well and I pretty much hit all the buttons for it. Don’t really care to investigate further currently, as it’s not like I can stop being me and an official diagnosis could cost me thousands of dollars.
If you’re not struggling with it, there’s no reason to treat it. Everyone’s a little different, you can’t pathologize individuality.
It’s absolutely a struggle (not the caffeine specifically, but… living in a dysfunctional world), my brain is a mess and my focus is terrible. A combination of caffeine, GABA, and 5-HTP keeps me functional. Without those and some sleep I can’t focus on anything.
I’m generally doing pretty well, though live with a constant low level of anxiety and constant level of some noise in my head (usually some random song stuck on repeat all the time, everytime I wake up, and all day if nothing else is happening). I’ve detoxed on caffeine in the past to confirm it wasn’t stimulant related, unfortunately it’s just my brain at work.
Granted, I’m lucky in some ways. My hobbies lean toward technical/nerdy stuff, I pretty much only read, play video games, work out physically, and tinker with random emulation and tech hobby projects. I work in IT and there’s nothing better than getting hyperfocused on an issue to solve, and I’m fixated on things like problem solving and power efficiency. It’s been pretty good for my career, though my social life is non-existent and I’m not good at maintaining connections with people. I’m lucky I met my wife and she likes me (she’s awesome).
I’m glad you’ve got a few tricks and assets to stay on top of it, at least. A better social life is on everyone’s list, these days it must be said.
I should look into those supplements you mentioned for my wife and kid, they sound promising at first glance.
I don’t actually feel too strongly about the social life. Wife and I are both introverts and enjoy our own and each other’s company fine. I had friends when I was younger (teens and 20s, I’m in my 40s now), but I would literally vanish for a month or three at a time until people would swing by just to make sure I was alive and drag me out of whatever I was doing. 😅
We’re happy as we are, and if I feel differently at some point, I’d probably be better off getting a dog than actually trying to make friends.
babies stop being that hard after a few years
We have twins, currently 11 months old. Even we haven’t been this degraded after the first 3 months. The first three were more surviving that anything else and to this day are the most challenging period of time I had to get trough in my life. After that it startet getting better. I even shower sometimes now.
Actually, I held a baby once. It wasn’t hard at all. It was actually super squishy.
I was still squishy enough for my mom, to run me over when I was like 9. Only fractured my wrist, and had straw punctured holes all over me. It was fun, and horrifying.
…kinda just feels like this entire comment is just you shoehorning in the fact that your mom ran you over.
Which is a weird thing to brag about.
Relevant anecdotes, how to they work?
Seriously though this is a weird fucking reply dude, who’s bragging?
My two year old has been two for the past 5 years…
I remember one time I had an informal work related sitting and my boss asked if I could come. I told him that I can’t because it’s my week to babysit the 2yo and he was “just bring him along, it’ll be fine.” So I took him along and then spent the rest of the night babysitting him because my child is a fucking force of nature. He doesn’t tire, he will go wandering, he will touch everything and he will throw anything he can get his hands on. So when his nap time came and I had to take him home my boss said “I don’t remember my children being that hard.”
And that’s when I understood that if you have no siblings you were a fucking menace as a child. Parents who have more children do so because they thought the first one wasn’t that bad.
Your boss also probably didn’t do as much of the child rearing.
That being said, I tend to try to push aside the tough times. They’re a given. I try to just remember the good times as best I can.
ok
Only a few years, eh 😅
yep…
but hey, if you want to die alone with no support and nobody left who cares about you, in a nursing home, don’t have kids 😅
do you value love? having kids awakens an entirely new kind of love and happiness that you never experienced in your whole life….
but, if you’re a sociopath, definitely don’t have kids and collect money as an obsession or whatever….
first year is very hard, it gets much easier as time goes on….
nothing worthwhile is easy peasySo instead of lamenting the fact that our society has little to no support for the elderly you decide to attack people who have no children, and decide they are the sociopath?
absolutely no
I’m not collecting money. I’m struggling to survive. There’s a difference!
It’s not the fault of anyone alone that having kids is difficult, it has a lot to do with the economy and where the kids grow up. Sardonically braising someone for not wanting kids, especially if they may choose to have kids later in life, is a waste of words, especially considering how some people are born infertile, or sometimes become that way by giving birth. If you love kids so much, you should be taking care of them RIGHT NOW
not “not wanting” kids but ridiculing people who have them is my prob
Yeah because somebody who “isn’t” a psychopath writes like that.
ok,
Wow everything about your comment and mindset is just a ball of toxicity and nope.
Yeah, let me just bring a human life into the world for my own selfish needs and desires without any consideration for them as a person…
i guess you missed the part about love
That’s not what they were leading with
well, maybe take in the entire thing at once instead of picking one sentence to complain about and ignoring the context
It also ignores the many, many cases where children lose touch with their parents for various reasons, or the possibility that people care for each other without being forced to. Fortunately children (and spouses as well!) today can do whatever they want, leave their parents/partners if they try to emotionally blackmail them through wedding or blood contracts, and instead care for nice people.
I know a couple that didn’t have kids. When they got older they told me that the massive amount of money they had was meaningless to them and regrets not having kids.
One became a CEO for a pretty large Taiwanese company but at night he worked as a professor in a nearby college . The wife did something similar. A high profile lawyer by day, a professor at night.
They eventually ended up “adopting” young adult as their daughter they both met in school that was putting herself through school.
They skipped stright into the good padt
Just 18
Hahaha, I’m in my mid 30’ and still a burden for my parents
In this economy and housing market? You better expect to have them at home for 30 ish years unless they end uo being rich very early.
spoken like an 18 year old
The first 3-5 years is incredibly stressful but it gets better as the kids are able to do more things for themselves and aren’t trying to kill themselves 24/7.
and aren’t trying to kill themselves
well…
year 10 here. just 30 more years until I’m dead.
My god I feel you.
Ooooo you’re about to re-enter the shitty zone in like 4 years when they turn into teens and start calling you Hitler for not letting them shoot fireworks out of the car sunroof.
no no. I’ll be the one shooting fireworks out of the car sunroof.
as mom drives and I scream out the top after dropping them off at school, “We love you so much baby! Go do your best!”
Yeah. I loved it when my kid got down to trying to kill itself (through sheer mind-bogglig stupidity, not igent) less than weekly. It really saves on energy, and makes bigger family adventures possible.
Just took my 3 year old to the hospital because I thought she had a concussion after climbing her sister’s walker and slipping backwards and hitting her head.
Turns out the vomiting was from a stomach virus thank god. Just bad timing.
I’m so tired.
Ganbatte!
The thing about kids is they make you notice aging. They grow up fast but you realize you still are too.
Hunching over in your 20s vs your 30s can be a big feel.
It’s all a bit of a cope, deep down there is this primal call that isn’t easily shrugged off. Well for some at least. I know that it will get stronger for me and stronger with each year.
I am not saying the purpose of humans nowadays is to make children nor that we should be reduced to such concepts but… it’s not easy to escape millions of years of evolution. It is definitely going against everything that screams “multiply” deep down and that will take mental health toll
I want us to go beyond this but it’s been a blink in the history, no one had time to accommodate to 21 century yet, it will take generations of turmoil and natural selection
it’s not easy to escape millions of years of evolution
It’s insane that we’re tied down to instincts when we believe ourselves so rational and sophisticated.
But funnily enough, I don’t have that instinct? I’m more than happy to be an uncle and that’s as far as the train goes for me. I can’t see myself waking up with a child on my mind. So mad respect for those who commit and become wonderful parents. I think it takes a special kind of resilience that needs to be awakened when you’re expecting. Props for those who embrace it.
As a parent to a little one right now… I can say that I rarely felt the “drive” to have kids. My SO was really let down that my initial reaction was anxiety over finances, for example.
That said, I don’t know if anything else could ever give me the kind of joy and happiness that just being able to love on my kid has brought me. If something happened to her I would be devastated.
But I also recognize that I’ve had to sacrifice a lot of personal freedom to be a good dad. I would never downplay that to “trick” people into wanting to be parents. It’s definitely a tradeoff, and especially difficult financially these days.
The only primal call I have is to fuck. I could not care less about actually having a kid as a result. If anything seeing how having kids has affected my friends ability to do so has made me want them even less.
That’s how the instinct works for guys. Then you have a little person to protect and it changes
Yup. Imagine a portable hype beast that loves all the same stuff you do.
Then you have a little person to protect
No thanks. I’ll watch out for other people’s kids if I’m around them but I don’t want to revolve my life around it.
Agreed. Never had any desire to have kids, still don’t. (The wife wants them, though.)
That said, when we had a pregnancy scare last week, my first thought was “well I’m 36; guess it’s time anyway”.
She was not pregnant. Which was relieving, because I don’t think it’s a wise decision to have children in today’s political landscape. That said, if it happens, it happens. I don’t think I’d have a meltdown over being a dad like I would have in my 20s.
Hit the lawyer, fire the gym.
Instructions unclear. Charged with arson and no lawyer will take the case since I punched one of them.
There is no “Fair” when you become a parent.
Parents who hate parenting misses their old selfish lives. Being a (good) parent means you no longer can be selfish and your life is no longer about you.
That might seem grim, but what you get in return is a little human that looks up at you. That holds your hands because you are their world to them.
Let go of your selfish lives and learn to enjoy your new selfless life.
That might seem grim, but what you get in return is a little human that looks up at you. That holds your hands because you are their world to them.
Is decades of debt worth it? Hard pass.
It’s not guaranteed you’ll enjoy it or be good at it. That would be a huge gamble to take with my own life, but if there’s a kid involved I’m gambling with their life, too. I could never do something like that in good conscience.
It is not selfish to choose not to procreate.
The smugness of parents who say people who choose differently are selfish is a great example of how parenthood can make someone a worse person.
Yeah, you can be a good parent and still miss your old life. Also, your previous life wasn’t necessarily “selfish” - what kind of bleak, one-dimensional outlook is this?
You can love your kid, love to spend time with them, and still want to go to that one event, concert, knitting group, cookout, rave party, bike ride, marathon, whatever. Often, you can integrate your kid once they’re old enough, and at other times you’ll have to sacrifice your plans, maybe not getting together with an old friend you haven’t seen in a while. If that makes you feel a little sad and disappointed, that’s called being a human being with nuanced emotions, not being selfish.
Being a good parent is about loving your kid, trying to integrate them, spending quality time with them, all while staying healthy, emotionally balanced and hopefully teaching your kid how to achieve just that.
I never said it’s not ok to be selfish. It’s perfectly ok to care about yourself. Because that’s is the only mouth you have to feed. Once it becomes 2, you have to let go of that feeling of a fair life. It’s not fair.
Yeah, my parents let go of the selfishness of wanting three meals a day and they never forgave me for it.
lol no: demanding society cater to your choice to have a child is not “selfless”
Im not jesus. I don’t demand nothing from you. You do you.
Last I checked, my taxes pay for your kids’ school, so…
I love kids, wish I’d had my own, but it is not “selfless.” That’s just you justifying what you wanted
my taxes pay for your kids’ school
The kid who one day might be your doctor, or care taker at an elder people’s home, or responsible for a lot of civil infrastructure; are you that certain their education doesn’t benefit you? Not you mention, you yourself had your education paid by other people’s taxes, if you were ever in the public school system, so consider this your way to pay back for that.
My taxes pay for your fire department and police services and road you drive on. I never had a house fire once.
You live if a society. Our collective taxes go to these services for a better today and a better tomorrow.
See it as you paying taxes for your school. School needs to exist for a functioning society. Private school leads to wealth gap and badness for everyone. If you wanna live in a nice place, you have to pay taxes.
Or I can go visit my sister and play with my niblings but not have to deal with any of the downsides of having children.
As a parent and a former uncle, I can tell you that it’s not comparable in the slightest. One is just having fun with a kid, while the other fills you with a sense of purpose unlike anything else.
Every single one of you sound like you’ve bought into a cult. I don’t need to spit out some kid to feel purposeful and content, just appreciate that I’m visiting to give you a break from parenting and let it go.
I’ve heard it said before that having your own and seeing someone elses’ children is not the same, the whole “you cannot understand until you have your own yada yada”.
As a parent myself, I would never recommend anyone to have kids who really don’t want it. It’s okay to never want to see a child again, if that is was you want. I love being a parent but that is my experience and my life.If you are fine as it is now, then there is not need to change it. What should matter to you is that you are happy, not someone else.
Real talk. We appreciate you helping watching and playing with our kids. It’s enrichment for our kids and they are growing to enjoy the company. But this is NOT the purposeful and content part of parenting.
My son was being bullied at school and didn’t know how to speak out for himself or even tell the teacher it was happening. My wife and I have been helping him vocalize and visualize how to express his discontent in a healthy way and also have the ability to report it to the teacher.
After months of this last week my son reported it to the teacher for the first time this year. I was so proud of him for speaking up to his bully and telling a teacher.
This is just a small thing that fills me with purpose and content. Everything we do together and watching him become a better person than me is what keeps me going.
No
Having a child literally rewires your brain and pumps you full of hormones which make you believe that having a baby is the most wonderful thing in the world. Parents go on and on about “you can’t understand until you do it!” Which absolutely makes sense because theres no other way to get that specific neurotransmitter cocktail. But that experience isn’t objective reality any more than taking acid is. Therefore parents are arguably the worst people to speak objectively about the experience of parenthood. They are just too close to the subject. I feel like I am a much more objective observer of their experience, and it looks pretty awful to me.
That’s like saying you’re the authority on what an acid trip feels like because you watched someone take one. Also step parents and adoptive parents love their kids without “having” them
Unless you’re one of those unlucky ones whose hormones go out of whack and you end up drowning them in the tub.
You could say this about literally anything though? All of the best rushes in life are just your brain drugging itself.
I mean, to play devil’s advocate, there are some subjects in which the person vouching for something being biased because they’re “too close” isn’t a concern: whenever there’s an objective benefit to whatever they’re doing
For instance, a person who runs marathons and has experienced runner’s high might say running is super fun once you get good at it and you should try it, and maybe you will and maybe you won’t, but trying to get good at running wouldn’t be a permanent life changing decision like having a child, and it would benefit your health rather than harming it like drugs
There are lots of thrills in life outside of drugs and instinctual hormone soups. Admittedly runner’s high is the healthiest example, but stuff like video games, sports with minor risk taking like snowboarding or mountain climbing, etc also fit the bill
See, you are missing that cocktail. You have to take one with the other.
Or do as my boss said, get grandchildren and skip children.Hmmm I wonder if those hormones could be synthesized and taken as a drug? I’d give it a try just to see what it did to me as a childfree person.
Acid is probably cheaper too
I’m finding very little of this thread resonates with me. I have a toddler who I love and get to spend a whole day off with during the week. I still get to do my running, cycling, rock climbing. I get some reading done most nights.
I’ve mostly sacrificed video games and social life, but rock climbing is social and a happy child is far more rewarding than games.
There are sacrifices, but I don’t feel like I’ve given up my life. Is this because I don’t live in the USA?
My kid didn’t sleep through more than a few hours until she was around 2yo but I’d already had my 2nd when she was 20 months and he didn’t sleep through until he was around 2 also. Plus I had 2 c-sections to get over and we moved country. I don’t care about sacrificing an old social life but my health and fitness took a massive hit.
I don’t live in the USA either, good benefits here.
Its nice that you enjoy bein a dad. Do you and your other partner do equal parenting? Only One day in the work week with the kid sounds a bit odd. Maybe I am getting it wrong.
We both do 5 days in 4 (compressed hours) so we only have to pay for 3 days of childcare. I get to do fun things for a day with my kid, and the weekends are normal.
Ah interesting, sounds like a good model if you can find a good childcare. I think the comic refers to raising kids on your own without extra help. So it makes sense that there are fastly different experiences.
Same here. Some of the things that have helped make our situation easier:
- Where we live, by law my wife got a year per kid off of work for childcare. I don’t know how people do this without a full-time parent.
- Since I work remotely, if my wife had a rough night, she could sleep during the day without worrying the kid was going to kill themselves because I would be around.
- Our kids were definitely on the easier side, especially our first. They almost never cried for zero reason (90% of crying was quickly remediated with the “diapers, hungry, sleepy” checklist), they quickly started sleeping well, etc. Some people have complete devil kids, colic, etc.
What we gave up was doing things together as a couple (romantic dinners etc), as we always had to either bring the kids or stay home with them, but we could still do things on our own when we wanted to. We have family nearby, but they deemed themselves “too old” to look over the kids when they were still babies. Now that our kids are in elementary school age they’ve been able to sleep over once or twice a year when we get to do a parents getaway for our anniversary etc.
Really depends on your support network, and that’s not USA specific. If you have help and your kid is easy going, then life can be a lot easier than if you have no help and your kid is challenging. Help can takeany forms, so yes childcare in USA is expensive and hard to come by, but involved family can help a lot regardless of where you live.
curious if you have somewhere/someone you can trust the toddler with while you do those hobbies.
I found that having a support network (either personal through friends family, or socialized through the government) has a big effect on how miserable parents are early on.
It’s definitely partly not being in the US. Economically… it’s just really rough. Childcare for our one kid is nearly as much as our monthly mortgage. We make decent money but still have only enough savings to survive 2, maybe 3 months without income.
I still have plenty of hobbies, but like, because finances are tight, we only have one car in a very very car dependent area. There’s simply no public transit where I live. So all of my hobbies have to be at home, or after when my kid goes to bed, which is usually close to 9:30pm, leaving an hour, maybe two, for time to myself during the week.
Do you work more than 12 hours to make a basic income? I think that’d be a large difference between wherever you are and the US.
Not living in the USA most definitely helps. The age of your kids makes a difference. My youngest is 16 months old and in his phase where he has no awareness of danger and sleeps like shit still and my gas tank is empty 24/7 by the shitty quality of sleep with the constant mental energy spent making sure he doesn’t kill himself. And that is when everyone is healthy.
I would litterally kill for them, but it is easy to understand why people feel like they do, especially with the current economic and societal context.
Maybe we got lucky with our kid’s sleep? I remember it was awful while my partner was on mat leave, but now they sleep through the night most nights so it’s usually other shit that’ll keep us up.
Were almost there. The oldest can manage herself for a little while in the morning and sleeps well
The youngest one is up at 5:30 - 5:45. It fucking sucks. And he still wakes up every other night.
6 more months and we should be over the bump.
I don’t mind the early waking too much since that’s when I get up for work anyway!
I think some just cope with parenthood better than others. Some take the feeling of bone deep mental and physical exhaustion and wonder “why/what the fuck was I thinking”. They just see all they are missing or regret not doing before. Others get that feeling and feel a deep satisfaction knowing it is a sign they are doing right for their kid. It completes them in a way that is inexplicable for those who don’t.
Not sure if that added anything or not but I felt it needed saying.
Some kids are definitely easier than others too. Both my kids wouldn’t sleep for more than 90 minutes at a time until they were a few years old; and when they were awake they would demand attention; like most kids that age who are awake do.
When the sleep sucks, everything else is worst for it.
I love my kids and I feel a great satisfaction raising them, but my tank is always running empty.
I think that parents are better at different stages of parenthood, and for me, between 9 months and 18 months is the fucking worst.
There are sacrifices, but I don’t feel like I’ve given up my life.
Yeah, I think one has to think about carefully first before having kids first, and be prepared what they have to sacrifice. Raising a child is not easy.
I think what this post is portraying is regret that they haven’t expected on what sacrifices they have to make to take care of a child. A lot of people want to get married and/or have kids just for the sake of it, because that is what society expect them to do.
Another big part is that so many people have virtually zero support. It’s just them and their kids. For the first few years, we lived a 4.5hr drive from any family support. I don’t even know how you find and vet babysitters these days.
It doesn’t help that we’re atheists, so we don’t even get the built in community support that a lot of churches provide.
I’m in a similar position. Secular childcare is insanely expensive and the only alternative is church preschool. For what its worth, I don’t worry about the more liberal religious schools as kids believe in Santa at that age anyways.
Same.
Japan doesn’t have babysitters. It suuuuuucks.
Wait there are no babysitters in Japan? I was only there for a year as a very much childless young adult, but for some reason I assumed there would be babysitters. Thinking back, I don’t think I ever knew someone who babysat unless it was an older sibling looking after younger siblings. Heck, I don’t even know the Japanese word for it. Wow, for some reason I really thought that was only a modern American problem.
Nope, there’s only a few on-call childcare services and they’re very expensive and booked way out in advance. You also have to do interviews with the care provider.
Do you still get to go places? I think the person in the comic used to travel a lot
Depends how much money you got. Once they are out of the “hold then in your lap” stage and you have to start paying for their airline seats it gets really expensive.
Not only that but trying to relax on a vacation with a small child must be miserable
My yearly vacation spot is iceland. How the hell would that work with a child
You don’t relax on vacation with small children. You’re always on alert, unless you got another family member or someone to look after your kids for a while.
You go because the kids have fun and enjoy it, but they’re also small enough they might not remember it at all anyway, so it can feel like a waste in that regard.
My parents took me to a lot of places as a kid to make good memories for me. It didn’t work. My whole childhood is mostly just a big blur in my memory.
I guess the idea is to live precariously through your child.
Okay. That was very clever. I like that one.
It is because people are different.
Same. Of course there are sacrifices but I still enjoy my life and can do things. Work is what saps me the most and I love my job.
Stop giving into social pressure to have children.
If you truly want to, have the resources, & you’re okay with making a lot of personal sacrifices, go for it.
But don’t do it just because it’s “expected of you” or anything else people say to try and guilt you into it. It will end up making everyone involved miserable.
I think we need to have a tough talk about why it’s so much harder to have kids these days, but that would involve talking about wealth inequality and the death of the community.
One big one is that today’s parents put too much pressure on themselves (both individually and as a group) to always be supervising. Some parents don’t feel that they can leave their child alone for 30 minutes while they shower or clean, or watch TV, because we’ve built up expectations that everything is structured and that we’re supposed to sacrifice our individuality for the kid. Some recent research has shown that millennial parents are spending a lot more “hands on” time with their kids than any previous generation, rather than passive supervision like when kids are playing in the house while the adults do something else.
Plus there is a significant line of people who feel compelled to do high effort, high visibility shows of parenting effort: Instagram worthy birthday parties, more structured play and learning, high effort cooking of things from scratch rather than convenience foods, etc.
Finances (and working hours) are definitely a big part of it, but a bigger part is the shift in norms and expectations that we’re expected to be much more for our kids than prior generations.
A former coworker used to take leave when her kid was out of school. Kid was 10. I was a 10 year old “latchkey” kid in the 80’s, we’d get home, I’d make a snack for me and my 8 yr old brother. Then we’d ride our bikes until the streetlights came on, and we’d go home.
I’m not a parent. I don’t really think either her or my parents were “right” or “wrong”, but I don’t understand why that changed.
I don’t understand why that changed.
It’s easy to point at social media, and that’s part of it, but I think it’s probably the ubiquity of photos and videos, easily transmitted to others. Even those of us who aren’t on social media still send photos and videos of our kids to the grandparents, to cousins, to other friends and family. We’re constantly exposed to parenting highlights, which subtly shifts the expectations on what the non-highlight portions look like.
It’s really straightforward to understand, there’s no “third places” for kids and kids are generally undesired in US society. It used to be, even if you weren’t religious, you had community because everyone in the neighborhood looked out for each other’s kids.
It’s a lot easier when you’re not outnumbered by kids and can swap with other adults, even if it’s 30 minutes to get a shower. Everyone is so isolated these days, it’s much more difficult to build support like that unless you are religious or have family involvement.
My street that I live on has twelve houses that front it, six on each side. Of those twelve houses, ten have kids, and nine have kids between 1 and 9 years old. It’s a real treat to be able to let the kids out, to share parenting responsibilities, to commiserate with the other parents when necessary, and to really just let the kids be kids. Sometimes there’s ten kids on the swingset in my backyard that is absolutely not designed for ten kids, or they’re riding bikes, or playing with chalk. It’s a real pleasure.
I bought the house 11 years ago. There were no kids. So we’ve kinda built the community. We’ve watched as houses go on sale, people come looking, and we would actually talk to them about our neighborhood.
So it’s kind of like the neighborhood that I grew up in at this point, and I really don’t think it was by accident. And I don’t think that my neighborhood is the only one like this.
Living the dream friend. I want that sense of community so bad. All my life I’ve lived isolated from others and it fucking sucks. My dad would always scold me: “go outside and play, get off the computer, blah blah blah” but like with whom? Glad your kids get to be kids. Cheers
I know, and I try not to take it for granted (although I do sometimes, because I’m just a guy). Until I was 10, I lived in a neighborhood where the houses were close together, the kids played outside, etc. Then we moved to a house on an acre and a half, which was huge in comparison to the like .18 acre property we lived on prior. You could fit five houses from my previous neighborhood on our lot. It was a beautiful home, great for playing outside – with just my brother and I. Not great for making friends in the neighborhood.
I tell the story often, but my wife is from a different place in Jersey than me, we didn’t meet until I was in my late 20s, a few years after my parents split, sold the house, and put that life behind us. One of her close friends got married a few years back, and beforehand, we went and I got to meet her friend’s fiance. We get to talking, and he tells me his last name, and it turns out they lived three houses down from me, but I had never met him because nobody went outside to play.
And it’s not to say we were homebodies. I played sports, I always was doing something, but it was also never less than a car ride away, which is isolating. So I don’t want my kids to live like that. They will walk to school when they’re old enough. They’ll walk downtown. They’ll throw rocks in the brooks that run through town. They’ll hang out under bridges. That’s important stuff to me.
Yeah. Not having retired family in hood health nearby is an issue. Someone had to move for their career. Or died. Or is too fragile. Or still working.
Nearly need polygamy for the economic certainty.
My wife and I have 6 month old twins… we’re both only children too. We are so lucky that my mother in law moved to our town as soon as we told her. Both of my parents are disabled, and cannot assist. Also, my wife getting the 12 weeks fmla / baby bonding was fine, but not great. I got nothing for paternity leave from my office and took two weeks of pto when they were born. It was and still is rough. If we didn’t have MIL around, we’d be in a real tough spot…
The lack of paternity leave and shortness of maternity leave in (assuming) the US is absolutely criminal. I was lucky enough to get 4 months, and that was not nearly enough to get my feet fully back under me before returning to work.
The fact that you had to take PTO just to bond with your kid is upsetting and frustrates me because those first few months are so valuable, and I feel like dads often miss out on so much.
Support networks are so incredibly important to parents. Don’t have kids of my own, but am helping with my sibling’s kids. Babysitting and just general support split with my parents. Thankfully, they don’t need financial help but that’d be on the cards if it came to it.
Support networks like this, whether it’s family, neighbours, friends or some combination is almost mandatory if you’re not very wealthy. It takes a village to raise a child, after all.
I’m definitely not having kids for this reason, and many more. I’m doing I’d say okay right now. I’m stable ish. Why would I want to change that at all? I see my peers having kids and immediately they can’t afford to even go out to eat, and don’t have time to get a beer once every 4 months. They chose that, I don’t hold them against it, but why would I risk where I am for that?
Logically speaking it is definitely a hard sell. I imagine a lot more planning goes into having them these days, and the financial burden is considerable with all the other costs rising as well.
Joke’s on you! My kid came after I realized that capitalism is fucked and we’re probably gonna witness societal collapse within our lifetime. I wasn’t going places. I wasn’t going anywhere.
Now at least I’ve got something to look forward to.
You look forward to your child’s immense suffering under a collapsing society?
I don’t think a societal collapse will result in suffering, but rather a better society.
Well that’s not how it usually goes but here’s to optimism I guess.
I don’t think I will ever understand this mindset.
You decided to force a child to live through societal collapse because “it’s something to look forward to”.
Yikes.
I think that you focussmore on community. “Societal collapse” will probably be more like societal restructuring.
Empires falling is mostly only bad for the ones controlling the empire. Yes, things might get harder, but humankind will prevail and continue to find joy. Probably more joy in a post-capitalist world than I will in a capitalist one. Maybe it’s not my child who will enjoy that society, but my grandchild. But I have something to give to the next generation.
You’ll have to become more focused on community as the empire falls. but family is one hell of a community.
Totally can relate as a father but there are too many wonderful things about having my son that an infinite amount of panels to describe the joy would not be enough to showcase it.
I’m getting downvoted for being happy? I never said others should become parents but okay.
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Oh yeah. My instance doesn’t allow downvotes, and will give you a warning when downvoting that it doesn’t count. And I would be like: what are you talking about, I didn’t do anything, and then I’d look and what do you know, I’d accidentally downvoted. It happens way more than I’d like to admit.
And you’re right, it really doesn’t matter if you get downvoted. It’s meaningless especially with a reasonable post like OP’s.
I’ve never once had someone ask when I’m going to have kids or tell me how great it is.
I constantly hear people bitching about it however, getting real tired of the antinatalists.
I literally got mocked for it by my ex wife’s uncles to the point where they would say shit like “do you need someone to show you how to do it?”
I get frequently asked by my partner’s female friends. None of the male ones ask and none of my friends ask.
Same: 47 years and not once has anyone cared whether I have kids or a partner
Yeah, same. Never been asked. I’ve known for a long time I’ve never wanted to have children.
But that’s purely for me. Not for me to pass judgement on anyone who does want kids, it’s such a personal choice.
